quote:

Originally posted by mcrimm:
A couple of us old boys eat lunch at a local Mexican restaurant on Thursdays. Immediately to the West is a vapor shop. Not to judge, but, when we eat outside, we see a stream of tattooed, pierced, blue/green/red haired, etc looking kids going in and out. All of em driving junk cars/trucks/SUVs. What am I missing?
Mike

The fact that, for every one of those "tattooed, pierced, blue/green/red haired, etc looking kids" you're not judging , there are probably 10, 100 or 1000 people who look not unlike you and me who vape more the way many people smoke cigarettes.

quote:

Originally posted by VBVAGUY:

quote:

Originally posted by braillediver:
Breathing water vapor isn't healthy.

Actually when you go in to the hospital or doctor, etc. and they give you what is called a breathing treatment it is pure oxygen with water vapor. God Bless

It isn't water vapour, anyway.

There sure are a lot of people in this thread quick to render judgement without understanding that about which they're rendering that judgement.

Where have I seen that before...?

quote:

Originally posted by mcrimm:
What am I missing?

A fine mellow, brah.

Juul CEO resigned, cashed out? writing on the wall? Can't say I'd blame him, flavored e-cigs are about to be history...

Link

Juul Labs CEO Kevin Burns resigned on Wednesday, effective immediately. He will be replaced by K.C. Crosthwaite, an executive at Altria Group, which owns a 35 percent stake in the e-cigarette maker

Juul also announced it is suspending all broadcast, print and digital product advertising in the U.S. The company will also refrain from lobbying the Trump administration on its draft guidance and fully comply with the policy when it becomes effective.

Burns’ resignation comes two weeks after the administration moved to ban flavored e-cigarettes from the market. The White House has blamed flavored e-cigarettes for the “surging” use of the products among teens and young adults. A recent study found nearly one in 10 eighth graders vape.

Massachusetts Gov. Charlie Baker on Tuesday banned the sale of all e-cigarette products for four months after more than 500 people across the U.S. have been diagnosed with vaping-related lung issues.

“We’re declaring this public health emergency because medical and disease control experts have been tracking the rapidly increasing number of vaping related illnesses that in some cases have led to death,” Baker said at a press conference. “We as a commonwealth need to pause sales in order for our medical experts to collect more information about what is driving these life-threatening vaping-related illnesses.”

The ban in Massachusetts came a day after federal prosecutors in California reportedly launched a criminal probe into Juul, which declined to comment to FOX Business.

Additonally, the Food & Drug Administration has asked the public to submit incidents that may show a connection between vaping and seizures.

Also Wednesday, Altria and Philip Morris ended their merger talks. The two companies have been looking for ways to diversify their businesses away from relying on cigarettes. Altria, which spun off Philip Morris in March 2008, sells cigarettes in the U.S. while Philip Morris is focused overseas.

There's nothing wrong with responsible vaping, leave me alone.

R. -- unapologetic nicotine lover

Ppl die....it's life.
I think the fear of dying had caused allot of the bs the government/ppl is/are doing.
Another reason religion works to keep societies from destroying themselves.

quote:

Originally posted by GWbiker:
Problem as I see it - you can't tell today's kids anything. They already know everything.

Same as it ever was. The expression, “Quick, hire a teenager while he still knows everything.” is not new or unique to this generation.

Come to think of it, I might have had some of that going on a little over thirty years ago. Sometimes it feels like karma when I see it nowadays...

quote:

Originally posted by slosig:
Same as it ever was.

Of course.

There are several reasons why teenagers believe they know everything. The first significant one is the fact that they’ve spent a lifetime learning new things, much of which they’ve discovered for themselves, or so they believe. That leads to the “Dam’! I’m good!” syndrome, and it’s a short step from realizing that they’ve learned a lot to believing they’ve learned everything. The second part of that process is due to the fact that our brains aren’t fully developed until our early 20s. Most teenagers tend to exhibit the same flaws in their thinking and that demonstrates there is probably a common cause.

But I believe the main reason teenagers and others who have never become adults intellectually is their lack of life experiences that have proved to them they can be wrong about what they believe. Most of us have to trigger a few Bouncing Betties at times to understand and accept that we haven’t mapped the minefield as well as we believe. Those flaws and inexperience are also true of a large percentage of chronological adults today, but in the case of actual children it’s why society has an obligation to protect them from the dangerous mines until they develop the intellectual capacity and life experiences to make good decisions for themselves.

I had vaped THC (dabs) for about a year. The high was incredible. However, within that year my lungs and sinuses became clogged with mucus. It was effecting my breathing so I stopped. It took about two months for my lungs to clear out.

Whereas I vaped for about... six months? three years ago and noticed no adverse effects whatsoever.

But all my juices, save one, were zero nicotine and all from reputable sources. Also there's this effect known as "vape tongue." If you vape heavily in a relatively short period the taste becomes muted. So-called "flavour chasers" will sometimes try to get it back by bumping the amount and density of their vapes, which exacerbates the problem, leading them to try harder, which...

Thing to do, when you've overdone it, is back off.

Could this kind of thing possibly be the problem?

quote:

Tests show bootleg marijuana vapes tainted with hydrogen cyanide
NBC News commissioned laboratory tests of knock-off marijuana vapes that found a pesticide linked to hydrogen cyanide in 10 out 10 products.

Sept. 27, 2019, 8:21 AM EDT / Source: NBC News
By Conor Ferguson, Cynthia McFadden, Shanshan Dong and Rich Schapiro

Fabian Castillo was suffering from crippling anxiety when his uncle handed him a marijuana vape pen one day last December.

"It will help calm you down," Castillo said his uncle told him.

Over the next several months, the vape worked as advertised. Castillo, who had just graduated high school in southern California, found himself more mellow and more productive.

He had no idea at the time that he was using, what he now believes, was a bootleg vape pen filled with a toxic mix of chemicals.

Full story: Tests show bootleg marijuana vapes tainted with hydrogen cyanide

Tag line in the story:

quote:

"Everything was put on pause because I decided to vape," Castillo said.

No, dude. Everything was put on hold because you decided to vape THC from a bootleg source.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
No, dude. Everything was put on hold because you decided to vape THC from a bootleg source.

https://www.kiro7.com/news/loc...ng-lawsuit/989658974

quote:

When Charles Wilcoxen switched to a vaping pen to use marijuana, he thought it would be safer than smoking.

“I believed 100 percent that it was a safer alternative,” Wilcoxen said.

[...]

“Which was in fact due to the vaping cartridges that were being used that legally bought here in the state of Washington,” said Wilcoxen.

Now Wilcoxen is suing six Washington based companies that distribute vaping products.

Wilcoxen said he chose to vape because marijuana helps him manage pain from a 2012 back injury he suffered as a contractor working in Iraq. Before that he was a special forces soldier in the U.S. Army. Now a Puyallup tribal police officer, he wanted to avoid opioids believing he was taking less risk by vaping on his off duty days.

[...]

And because marijuana is still illegal under federal law here is no oversight of the ingredients in the vape cartridges and whether or not they pose a health risk.

“The FDA should ban these products until they are proven safe and once they are safe they should be kept safe through regulation,” said Mark Lindquist, Wilcoxen’s attorney with the Herrmann Law Group.

The companies listed in the suit are Canna Brands Solutions, Conscious Cannabis, CannaNW, LeafWerx, and Jane’s Garden. KIRO 7 was able to get through to Canna Brands and LeafWerx. The companies said they had not seen the lawsuit and did not comment.

I don't know what kind of state regulation and oversight we have here, but I doubt strongly that this police officer would sue companies if it were to somehow come out in court that he was using bootleg stuff instead.

And, from this article:
https://www.kiro7.com/news/loc...ay-morning/990830295

quote:

The [CDC]'s count includes only illnesses that have met certain criteria. Other illnesses are also being investigated.

Most patients have said they vaped products containing THC, the ingredient that produces a high in marijuana. The investigation has been increasingly focused on products containing THC, with some attention on ingredients added to marijuana oil.

But some patients have said they vaped only nicotine. Currently, health officials are advising people not to use any vaping product until the cause is better understood.

They claimed they didn't vape Marijuana because they did and were hiding it. Be real.

Monkey Irony.

The people most likely concerned with fear of the "conspiracy of Chemtrails", likely are vaping.

quote:

Originally posted by Johnny 3eagles:
They claimed they didn't vape Marijuana because they did and were hiding it. Be real.

I am being real. I think since the CDC is investigating this, they’re gonna be real about it also. Since THC hangs out in the system so long, it should be real easy to test patient samples for it to corroborate whether those who said they weren’t using it were being truthful. I’m simply allowing the possibility to exist in my mind that vaping nicotine can prove to be extremely harmful for certain individuals instead of blaming a traditional societal boogeyman. I think that’s about as real as it gets.

Let’s let science bear it out one way or the other. Otherwise, you risk sounding like the dude with the pencil beard and flat-brimmed cap cocked at a quarter turn with the store stickers still on it, blowing clouds out the window of your lowered ricer running toes-out. “Relax, bro. It’s just vape.”

Just listened to a radio sound byte of a CDC representative saying that while most of the illnesses were THC related, some were not, and while they’re not sure exactly what’s causing the illnesses, they caution Ned people to discontinue vaping until they could figure it out.

Now I could go tinfoil hat and say big tobacco bought off the CDC, I think I’d rather say that an industry with no oversight is about to get it.

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
I’m simply allowing the possibility to exist in my mind that vaping nicotine can prove to be extremely harmful for certain individuals ...

Yeah... about that: People have been vaping nic in various concentrations for years--and not dying from it. Then there's the nicotine delivery system known as "smoking," which is the most efficient NDS of all.

Many vape juices don't contain any nicotine at all.

Dude, I used to keep a hookah packed with premium shisha imported from all over the Middle East running on my back porch for years, so don’t mistake me for a blind proponent of banning anything people inhale. I also smoked weed many years ago in college and then went on to a nearly two pack a day cigarette habit which I’ll be thankful to make it nine years quit cold turkey this Thanksgiving.

I get that vaping helps some people quit smoking and that it’s less harmful overall. I can fully believe that black market or bootleg THC cartridges and vape juice are fucking people up the way bathtub gin did during prohibition.

And for all my experiences inhaling these intoxicants, I simply refuse to disallow entertaining the idea that people are suffering ill effects from “e-juice” and that they’re lying about buying bootleg THC juice. Maybe the ones ending up in the hospital are the ones that blow clouds all day, but if the stuff isn’t studied and regulated, it’s entirely possible that regular users are getting sick off adulterated or spoiled batches or any other number of causes. It’s entirely possible to have an awesome hookah session with the thing loaded with ice water, properly rotate your coals, manage the ash, go to bed feeling great and wake up the next morning unable to breathe and feeling like you’re about to die. And that’s with honeyed tobacco vaporized through ice water, not some mystery shit heated with mystery pot metals and vapor passing through mystery pot metals.

Since I don’t do any of that shit anymore and haven’t in many years, I truly have no dog in this fight, but it’s interesting to me that you didn’t respond to what I posted from the news articles and chose a small portion of my posts to respond to. As to that: nicotine free or not, if you inhale unregulated chemicals, bad things can happen to you. Change my mind on it, I guess.

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
Dude, I used to ...

Dude, that sounds a lot like "I own guns" from somebody supporting gun control.

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
... it’s interesting to me that you didn’t respond to what I posted from the news articles and chose a small portion of my posts to respond to.

I responded to the one, narrow point. I'm not obliged to respond to every point you make.

So far all we know, or think we know, is that most (?) of the people getting sick have been vaping THC--possibly adulterated with vitamin E.

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
As to that: nicotine free or not, if you inhale unregulated chemicals, bad things can happen to you. Change my mind on it, I guess.

That's an inarguable position, so why would I try to change your mind? My point was that thousands and thousands, perhaps millions of people all over the world have been vaping for years. Now, all of a sudden, people are getting sick and dying from it?

I approach this the same way I do gun control: Guns have been around for a long time. Only recently do we have the kinds of problems with firearms abuse we now do. So, since the gun availability part of the equation has not changed, what has? If the gun availability part of the equation has not changed, then perhaps we ought to determine what has, and fix that?

Three things I know, for a fact:

1. Years ago there was a problem called "popcorn lung." That was a result of using a flavour enhancer called diacetyl. (See below.) Once the source of the problem was identified it was eliminated from products. Problem solved.

2. There have been issues with "e-cigarettes" blowing up. Every one of those I've looked into involved products called "mech mods." Mech mods are a battery, switch, coil and something to contain them. No safety circuit at all, and a battery capable of supplying essentially infinite current. Solution: Don't use mech mods. (Many stores refuse to stock or sell them.)

3. The dominant media is blowing all this way out of proportion, because that is what they do.

The rational solution to the current vaping "health emergency" is to identify what these people have done that has resulted in bad outcomes for them.

Again: I find it fascinating that gun owners, out of all the demographics in the population, seem so quick to buy the narratives being pushed by the dominant media and to call for government intervention.

Popcorn Lung is so-called because inhaling the atomized or vaporized form of diacetyl was found to be the primary cause of it. Diacetyl is (was?) commonly used as a flavour enhancer in popcorn. People that were exposed to the fumes from popcorn poppers on a regular basis suffered from it. (E.g.: Workers being movie theatre concession counters.)

I guess we have all forgotten the Tylenol poisonings.

Whatever side you come down on it's impossible to deny that people are getting sick and some dying not simply from vaping, but from vaping some chemical or overuse.

People overuse plenty of things, alcohol, cigarettes, food, sex, drugs, you can't stop it, human nature, some folks have control, others do not.

Regulation of the market isn't a bad thing seeing that obviously there are makers of vape cartridges that are hurting people.

I doubt big tobacco is trying to stop it now as its too big, what they will do is try and take it over, small company owners will get rich in buyouts, big tobacco will run this industry, they don't care what the delivery vehicle is, and if they can deliver nicotine to your body in a non offensive manner, no second hand smoke, and get by all the regulations and taxation on smoking they will do so..

Of course congress isn't going to want to see that Tobacco money go away like gas taxes in a fully electric car world, they'll just change the way the tax is applied....

My guess is because of a pesticide has found its way into the process.