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Picture of lastmanstanding
posted November 22, 2024 07:33 AMHide Post
First off a charging grizzly can cover 50 yards in seconds. He's most likely charging you from thick brush and woods so getting a clean shot off that drops the bear before he gets on you is unlikely.
We all picture ourselves being supremely calm and confident because we have whatever gun we feel we need. We calmly raise our gun at a charging thousand pound ball of pissed off beast and fire the perfect shot dropping the beast dead at our feet.

I promise you you will die a thousand deaths in those seconds and you will be lucky to be alive after it even if you get the shot off.


"Fixed fortifications are monuments to mans stupidity" - George S. Patton
 
Posts: 8722 | Location: Minnesota | Registered: June 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
My other Sig
is a Steyr.
Picture of .38supersig
posted November 22, 2024 08:07 AMHide Post
Mine would be a Magnum Research BFR in .460 S&W.

The recoil is a bit much, I'd be deaf for two weeks, would have messed myself upon visual of charging bear, and stumbled in to a creek dropping everything else. "Hey! You missed the bear!"

Other than that it would be fine.



 
Posts: 9582 | Location: Somewhere looking for ammo that nobody has at a place I haven't been to for a pistol I couldn't live without... | Registered: December 02, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted November 22, 2024 08:36 AMHide Post
It’s hard to argue against a 12 gauge in that situation.
 
Posts: 1245 | Registered: July 14, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted November 22, 2024 09:23 AMHide Post
My "bear gun" that I take up in the western Montana mountains on my side by side is a S/W 460 with 5" bbl, and HSM 325 gr. with their solid rnfp BEAR LOADS ammo. We grow bears big up this way, lol !!
 
Posts: 43 | Location: Montana | Registered: November 16, 2024Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Peripheral Visionary
Picture of tigereye313
posted November 22, 2024 10:26 AMHide Post
Based on what's in my safe, either 12g slugs or G20.

Honestly I wonder if a flamethrower might be a better choice as a deterrent. Even Mr Bear gotta respect da fire...




 
Posts: 11431 | Location: Texas | Registered: January 29, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
As Extraordinary
as Everyone Else
Picture of smlsig
posted November 22, 2024 10:36 AMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by coloradohunter44:
12 gauge pump or semi auto shotgun with alternating slug and buckshot loads. As fast as you can empty it.


Given the fact that you’ll only have a second or two before you become lunch a semi auto 12 gauge shotgun with some Black Magic slugs…

https://www.brennekeusa.com/de...0d65e343df1b9daa4740

I carry this ammo in my pump action when I travel to remote parts of Canada and Alaska


------------------
Eddie

Our Founding Fathers were men who understood that the right thing is not necessarily the written thing. -kkina
 
Posts: 6553 | Location: In transit | Registered: February 19, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted November 22, 2024 10:48 AMHide Post
!2 gauge semi auto or one of the larger Weatherby Magnum caliber rifles. Weatherby's are known capable dangerous game stoppers and I think the 12 gauge with proper slugs would be effective. I shot one round from a pal's 338 Weatherby and it was enough to convince me not to have another go with it. Would hate to be put in that position though.



The “POLICE"
Their job Is To Save Your Ass,
Not Kiss It

The muzzle end of a .45 pretty much says "go away" in any language - Clint Smith
 
Posts: 2990 | Location: See der Rabbits, Iowa | Registered: June 12, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Busier than a cat covering
crap on a marble floor
Picture of Z06
posted November 22, 2024 11:05 AMHide Post

Loaded w/ Black Magic. I feel fairly safe in AZ though.


________________________________________________________
The trouble with trouble is; it always starts out as fun.
 
Posts: 4386 | Location: AZ | Registered: July 18, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Saluki
posted November 22, 2024 11:14 AMHide Post
Stopping and killing are 2 distinctly different things. A bear on his way to dying can kill you a couple times.

Nothing less than 375H&H for me.


----------The weather is here I wish you were beautiful----------
 
Posts: 5262 | Location: southern Mn | Registered: February 26, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted November 22, 2024 11:15 AMHide Post
Hmmm... When I was instructing, I put on a "charging dog" drill. It consisted of a gallon milk jug partially full of water with a rope tied to the handle. The jug was placed at the 25 yard line and the rope was played out behind the firing line. At the go signal, one of the troops would run with the rope, causing the milk jug to "charge" the shooter. We ran the drill with pistols and 14 inch 870s with OOB. Pistol was from low ready and shotgun was chambered. Here is how out it played out:
The closer the jug got to the shooter, the quicker the shooter fired. And missed. Especially with the pistol. If hits were made, it was at close range with the shotgun.
The lesson learned was this: if charged by a dog you had better wait to fire until the dog was almost on you in order to get a hit with a handgun. The odds of success go up drastically with a long gun but still were poor unless the distance was close. And... The rope dragging the milk jug was propelled by a man. Slower than a dog. Or a bear. But the milk jug made for a small target. So in the Grizzly Bear scenario given, no matter what artillery you may have, do you have the calm deliberation to wait until the distance drops down enough to ensure a good hit?
And speed and distance of the encounter certainly factors in for a successful shot. Based on the "charging dog" drill experience, if I ever found myself in big bear country, I would have very handy a Benelli with Black Magic slugs. And have a slug chambered ready to go. Even then, could I prevail against a charging bear? I wont know until the time comes! Eek


End of Earth: 2 Miles
Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles
 
Posts: 16603 | Location: Marquette MI | Registered: July 08, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Mistake Not...
Picture of Loswsmith
posted November 22, 2024 11:34 AMHide Post
I never know what to say in a thread like this:

Glock 20?

12 gauge semi?

.45/70 lever?

Phased plasma rifle in 40 watt range?

If you want a true answer then I'd honestly not imagine myself in that scenario with what I'd WANT to have in that scenario, because it would be unexpected by definition. And what I'd WANT to have is not something I'd be walking in the grizzly likely woods with on a routine basis.

I'd LIKELY have either a Glock 20 or 12 gauge pump, but I'd be wishing I had a Bushmaster 25mm chain gun. But around here, cougars, black bears and meth heads are the most likely problems and I'd be happy with what I had with them. But, to be honest, I'd still rather a 25 mm chain gun then too.


___________________________________________
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Velocitas Incursio Vis - Gandhi
 
Posts: 2136 | Location: T-town in the 253 | Registered: January 16, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted November 22, 2024 11:45 AMHide Post
What will it take to kill a Grizzly Bear? A calm demeaner and nerves of steel.



Bella Twin, the .22 Used to Take the 1953 World Record Grizzly, and More

https://www.ammoland.com/2017/...rd-grizzly-and-more/



Arizona -(Ammoland.com)- On 10 May, 1953, Bella Twin was hunting small game with her partner, Dave Auger, along an oil exploration cutline south of Slave Lake, in Alberta, Canada. She was 63 years old.

They saw a large grizzly bear coming toward them. Wishing to avoid an encounter, they hid off the side of the cut.

But the bear kept coming closer and closer. The bear got so close that Bella Twin thought it less risky to shoot the bear than to not shoot it. It was probably only a few yards away. Some accounts say 30 feet. Perhaps she saw it stop and start to sniff, as if it had caught their scent. We may never know.

She shot at the side of the bears head. Knowing animal anatomy very well (she was an experienced trapper, and had skinned hundreds, perhaps thousands of animals) she knew exactly where to aim to penetrate the skull at its weakest point.

She shot, the bear dropped. It was huge. She went to the bear and fired the rest of the .22 long cartridges that she had, loading the single shot rifle repeatedly, to “pay the insurance” as Peter Hathaway Capstick said. She made sure the bear was dead, and not just stunned. My father taught me the same lesson when I was 13.

Here is a picture of the bear’s skull and the .22 caliber holes in the left side.



For those curious about how to place that shot on a live bear, the place to aim is half way on a line from the center of the eye to the ear hole.

From the front, you would aim directly up the nose. If the bear’s mouth is open, aim for the back of the roof of the mouth. Aiming above the nose will likely miss the brain.

What rifle did Bella use to shoot the world record grizzly in 1953?

I wrote an article asking for help in 2014. Several alert readers replied over the intervening period. Because of their efforts, and the Internets, I have been able to find more detail about Bella Twin, her rifle, and the event. One reader was able to track down the current location of the rifle and send me pictures taken by the curator of the museum. The rifle is a Cooey Ace 1 single shot .22 rimfire.



Bella Twin used the rifle for many years on her trapline. The rifle was produced between 1929 and 1934. From a commenter at Ammoland:

here is a quote from the curator of the museum about the gun when i talked to him via email:

” I can tell you that the rifle is a .22 caliber single shot Cooey Ace 1. I can also tell you that the rifle’s condition, which has remained as it was when Bella Twin shot the bear, leaves a lot to be desired. There is corrosion on the receiver and barrel, the front screw that holds the stock to the barrel is missing and has been replaced with hockey tape. There is a piece of rubber under the barrel – probably as a method of “free floating” the barrel. There is no finish left on the wood. The stock is missing a part by the receiver and there is a wood screw reinforcing a crack in the stock.”

Bella Twin was a Cree woman. She had a reputation for being a deadly shot. Her grandson, Larry Loyie became an award winning writer. He wrote a fictionalized account of the bear shooting to include his grandmother in his prize winning children’s book, As Long as the Rivers Flow. From smokyriverexspress.com:

Kokom Bella Twin is a highlight of the adventures in As Long as the Rivers Flow. The tiny 63-year-old Cree wo- man, who lived on Rabbit Hill overlooking Slave Lake, shot the biggest grizzly bear in North America.

“I had to put Bella into the book. She was being forgotten. The only people who remembered her were readers of hunting magazines,” said Larry.

In As Long as the Rivers Flow, Larry wrote that he was with his grandmother when she shot the bear. It made sense to put the story into the book, but Larry was not with his grandmother when she shot the bear. In 1953, Larry had been gone from Slave Lake for five years. I suspect his grandfather, Edward Twin, had died. Bella was 63 and was spending time with another man. Larry refers to Dave Auger as Bella’s partner in a family picture. Dave Auger was with Bella when she shot the bear.



Bella Twin and her partner Dave Auger, family photo by Larry Loyie. The photo was likely taken in the 1960’s or later, because it is in color.

In Bruno Engler: Photography, the famous photographer has pictures of Bella in front of the bear skin. When Bruno told her that he wanted to take the picture, she insisted on going home and sprucing up, and changing into nicer clothes. Engler writes:

She was dressed very simply. When she thought I was going to take a picture of her she said “No, I have to go home first.” And she came back with a dress and put some cornstarch on her face for makeup. I said “Bella Twin, you looked much better before.”

Women want to look their best in a photograph that will be shown to the world. This explains the somewhat awkward grip on the Cooey Ace 1 in the Engler photograph. Her left hand covers up the repair to the rifle.

What ammunition did Bella Twin use? The written accounts say .22 Long.



This style of box was produced by CIL in Canada from 1950 to 1956. It is probably the type of ammunition Bella Twin used to shoot the world record grizzly. Bella Twin is specifically recorded as reporting that she shot it with .22 Longs, not Shorts, not Long Rifles. I recall that into the 1960’s Longs were more expensive than shorts, but cheaper than Long Rifle ammunition.

The High Velocity .22 Long dates back to the 1930’s and uses a 29 grain bullet at 1240 fps. The High Velocity .22 Short dates to about the same period, with the same bullet as the Long, but a velocity of 1125. The difference in velocity is 1240 – 1125 or 115 fps. That amounts to a 21% increase in energy for the Long, but far short of the Long Rifle, which is almost double that of the .22 Short.

The energy figures are listed as Short 81 foot pounds, Long 99 foot pounds, and Long Rifle 158 foot pounds, all for High Velocity loads of the period. A standard velocity .22 Long Rifle is listed at 1140 fps, with 120 foot pounds of energy, or 21% more than the High Velocity Long. The modern CCI standard velocity .22 Long Rifle travels at 1070 fps, with 102 foot pounds of energy, still 3% more than the High Velocity Long.

What was the location where the bear was shot? During my research, I came across a photo of the right side of the bear’s skull. The right side has the location where the bear was shot written on it. The bear was shot in Section 24, Township 71, Range 6, W 5th Meridian. That is a section of land about 7 1/2 miles south of Slave Lake. The bear was likely shot just west of Florida Lake. A section is one mile square.



In Larry Loyie’s obituary in the Smoky River Express, Bella Twin is described as a tiny woman. This photograph suggest that she was under five feet tall.

We know the date the bear was shot, because it is recorded on the top of the skull. Most written accounts only say it was the spring of 1953. It was on May 10th of that year.

Bella Twin was only a name for most of the time I knew of her. I wondered about this famous huntress for many years. Now we know that she was an expert trapper, hunter, and a crack shot. She was a beloved grandmother who taught her grandchildren well and knew the Cree traditional folkways. She lost one man and found another. She was shrewd enough to parlay the world record grizzly into cash. She sold the skin and skull separately, and sold the old, beat up rifle as well.

Bella Twin, I salute you. I would have liked to know you. Born in the Canadian wilderness in 1890, your life stretched between worlds.

May your memory and deeds live long, told around many campfires. I will tell my grandchildren about you.


_________________________
"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it."
Mark Twain
 
Posts: 13486 | Registered: January 17, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Jack of All Trades,
Master of Nothing
Picture of 2000Z-71
posted November 22, 2024 11:53 AMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by MNSIG:
You didn't say how far I needed to carry it, or for how long, so definitely a .375 H&H rifle. Why in the heck would anyone choose a pistol in this case?

Depends on what you're doing. Try fly fishing in waders with a .375 slung over your shoulder.




My daughter can deflate your daughter's soccer ball.
 
Posts: 11954 | Location: Eagle River, AK | Registered: September 12, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Little ray
of sunshine
Picture of jhe888
posted November 22, 2024 11:54 AMHide Post
45-70 or 375 H&H in a double rifle, if I really get the optimal choice. Maybe a BAR in .338 Winchester magnum, but you would have to get a used one. Benelli made the R1 semi-auto in .338 Win mag, but I don't know if they still do.

I just read "The Tiger," which is about a man-eating tiger in far northeastern Russia in the '90s. The hunters who killed it used SKSs, but three were shooting it when it charged. It still injured one of them. I would not choose a SKS.




The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything.
 
Posts: 53432 | Location: Texas | Registered: February 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted November 22, 2024 12:17 PMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by SIGfourme:
Brenneke Black Magic Slugs. Specifically designed for penetration.
https://www.brennekeusa.com/products?btype=Bear Protection

This.

I believe National Park service uses this set-up, may have changed or, was specific to the Kenai office.
 
Posts: 15222 | Location: Wine Country | Registered: September 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Legalize the Constitution
Picture of TMats
posted November 22, 2024 12:42 PMHide Post
like tatortodd, when fly fishing in NW WY, I used to wear a chest holster with a .44 mag and hard cast bullets. I also carried bear spray, and after talking with large predator experts from WGFD, USGS, and NPS, I determined that if charged, I would go for bear spray first, then transition to the big bore revolver. I went out with Wyoming Game and Fish numerous time, both bear researchers and large predator conflict specialists. A 12 gauge was at hand when working on or around G bears. I hope that many of you who responded, if you haven’t already, have a chance to see Grizzlies in the wild someday.


_______________________________________________________
despite them
 
Posts: 13791 | Location: Wyoming | Registered: January 10, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
blame canada
Picture of AKSuperDually
posted November 22, 2024 12:55 PMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 2000Z-71:
Depends.

If out in the bush and not hunting season, Marlin Guide Gun in .45-70 with with 430gr Underwood hardcast loads.

Out hiking around or out with the camera, Smith & Wesson 329 with 280gr Grizzly hardcast loads in a cross draw holster.

Kayaking on lakes with beaching the kayaks and going on short hikes, Sig P320-XTEN with 200gr Underwood hardcast loads in a chest holster.

Good advice.

I carry a pretty similar setup. My 329 is a pd model. I've shot black bears with it. It isn't my preferred choice, it's my better than nothing choice. Black bears didn't die very quickly. A grizz on the charge would have blown right through it.

Solid hardcast or solid brass rounds out of a 45-70 just plain work. When tromping through the woods, my marlin guide gun is my main go-to. I haven't shot a bear with it yet, but I've shot 2 moose, and they both dropped within 2 steps.

I can't emphasise enough that if you actually think you're going to encounter a griz in a shoot situation....12 gauge shotgun.

When I have to do a job in bear country, we take 12 gauge shotguns with slugs. Wildlife troopers that I know take a 12 gauge shotgun with slugs.

A lot of people get into monster handguns. Very few of them can get more than 1 shot off. Go down in size until you can get 3-4 shots off on a charging bear INSIDE an effective kill zone. Most people hit that point with 10 mm. Most guides that I know carry 10 mm glocks. Except for the nonresident ones that are putting on a show for their clients...

I developed a bear load for 9mm that my wife carries. I wish she could carry something better, but she just can't handle the recoil. Carrying a 9mm is better than nothing, and I developed an extreme penetration load with my buddy who now sells them.

In a lot of cases the gun you will have on you is the best gun. A 12 gauge is perfect, until you set it down and have to run for it.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The trouble with our Liberal friends...is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." Ronald Reagan, 1964
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Arguing with some people is like playing chess with a pigeon. It doesn't matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon will just take a shit on the board, strut around knocking over all the pieces and act like it won.. and in some cases it will insult you at the same time." DevlDogs55, 2014 Big Grin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Posts: 14015 | Location: On the mouth of the great Kenai River | Registered: June 24, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted November 22, 2024 02:11 PMHide Post
Its always interesting to hear everyone's different opinions in these scenarios. I might go with a USAS Auto 12 with a drum magazine, loaded with slugs.


No one's life, liberty or property is safe while the legislature is in session.- Mark Twain
 
Posts: 3687 | Location: TX | Registered: October 08, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Who Woulda
Ever Thought?
posted November 22, 2024 02:17 PMHide Post
I would take my Beretta. A semiauto 12 gauge A300 Ultima Patrol. 8 rounds of Brenneke 600 grain slugs. I bought it for pig hunting out to about 25 yards with 00 buck from a blind.
 
Posts: 6614 | Registered: August 25, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Drill Here, Drill Now
Picture of tatortodd
posted November 22, 2024 02:55 PMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by AKSuperDually:
A lot of people get into monster handguns. Very few of them can get more than 1 shot off. Go down in size until you can get 3-4 shots off on a charging bear INSIDE an effective kill zone. Most people hit that point with 10 mm. Most guides that I know carry 10 mm glocks. Except for the nonresident ones that are putting on a show for their clients...
^^ THIS ^^

As you said, the key is you have to practice with it and with full bore bear loads. Every spring, I'd take my hand cannon to the range, warm up with some cream puff cowboy loads, shoot a few GDHPs, and then do a bear stop drill with the Buffalo Bore hard casts. 6 rapid fire shots, and my hands/wrists would hurt for 3 days.

There is more to the my big bore pistol story. The gun store said the 454 casull would arrive in a week or two so in the mean time I purchased the expensive chest rig, the speed loaders, the buffalo Bore hard cast bear rounds, the WWB, the GDHP, etc. I had friends coming to visit from Texas and months later the Ruger Alaskan is still any day now. I'm 8 days out and I've got 4 bear sprays for friends but promised I'd be carrying a big bore revolver. I call around, and found 1 gun store with a Ruger Alaskan in stock but it's .44 magnum. It'll fit the chest holster so I go there Friday after work, buy the .44 mag, buy bear rounds, buy some training FMJ, and buy a couple speed loaders. I took it to the range the next day, warmed up on the FMJ, and then shot some bear rounds. Night and day between cheap FMJ and full bore bear rounds. 7-months later I get a call out of the blue and the .454 Casull finally arrived so I bought it. Side by side you really feel the 50% energy difference between .44 magnum and .454 Casull. Third summer, a buddy moved to Alaska so I sold him the .44 magnum. He could shoot 9 mm fine, he could shoot 40 S&W fine, and he's my size so I figured he could handle it. However, after four trips to the range he could barely hit the broad side of a barn with the .44 magnum (I even shot it again to show it wasn't the gun) so he wisely sold and replaced it with a 12 gauge with Brenneke Black Magic slugs.

BTW, here is a pic of the two Ruger Alaskans protecting a delicious crock pot roast:



Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity

DISCLAIMER: These are the author's own personal views and do not represent the views of the author's employer.
 
Posts: 23996 | Location: Northern Suburbs of Houston | Registered: November 14, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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