quote:

Originally posted by Shaql:
My mower is one of the "Never change the oil" but you do have to add oil. The mower is 5 years old with no issues.

Which means you do change the oil, just one qt at a time, like an old motorcycle that leaks constantly, back then it was called a total loss system.

I'd still change the oil. It's cheap insurance at $3.58 for Walmart's brand or $5.58 for B&S' brand. I'd much rather get 20 or 25 years out of a mower than 10 years.

Here's a tale of 3 Toro Recyclers.

Dad - purchased in 1990ish, oil changed every year, and for a about 4 years I mowed 7 lawns with it. About 1997, he moved to a house with larger lawn so primary mower was tractor, but he still used the Toro as his trim mower every week. He got his lawn set-up a few years ago to never get off his tractor so stopped using it as a trim mower, but was still going strong. See Brother's 2nd Recycler for the rest of the story.

Mine - purchased in 2000, oil changed every year, I've moved it all over North America, and it's still my only mower. Mowing season is 9 or 10 months here, but had an easier life the 5 years it spent in Alaska with a 3 month mowing season.

Brother's 1st Recycler - brand new mower received as homewarming gift at his then new house. Never changed the oil, never checked the oil, and died within 7 years.

Brother's 2nd Recycler - took Dad's trustworthy Toro Recycler, never changed the oil again, never checked the oil again, and it's no longer running. In 4 years, his neglect killed it.

---

Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity

DISCLAIMER: These are the author's own personal views and do not represent the views of the author's employer.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:

quote:

Originally posted by Shaql:
My mower is one of the "Never change the oil" but you do have to add oil. The mower is 5 years old with no issues.

Which means you do change the oil, just one qt at a time, like an old motorcycle that leaks constantly, back then it was called a total loss system.

Well, it's actually about 2-4 oz of oil per summer. And you can pick all the nits you want, but I still don't change the oil (emptying a reservoir and refilling), I add to it, yes.

I assume it's the same as a total loss system. Doesn't make it right or wrong. It's how B&S designed it and it works just fine. I was reassuring the OP that if he goes that route that at least 1 internet reviewer says it's worked fine for them.

quote:

Well, it's actually about 2-4 oz of oil per summer. And you can pick all the nits you want, but I still don't change the oil (emptying a reservoir and refilling), I add to it, yes.

I assume it's the same as a total loss system. Doesn't make it right or wrong. It's how B&S designed it and it works just fine. I was reassuring the OP that if he goes that route that at least 1 internet reviewer says it's worked fine for them.

Not nit picking, just making the point that the oil does eventually get changed, it's just a different procedure than draining oil.

It's a bit more ecologically sound.....

Once gas starts making it past the rings, you won’t even have to add oil.

quote:

Originally posted by Shaql:
....And you can pick all the nits you want, but I still don't change the oil (emptying a reservoir and refilling), I add to it....

I assume the same maintenance with your vehicles?

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
Once gas starts making it past the rings, you won’t even have to add oil.

Yeah, and oil that is in the sump pours out much more easily! This was a common occurrence back when I was doing commercial grounds maintenance, a sure sign that a .010 overbore is in the engine's future. The B&S shop manual even details these overbore jobs, you can get rings ans pistons in .010 steps up to .040 over.

Another thing, the "life of the mower" is governed by more than the engine. Wheels, chassis, and other components will usually give up long before an engine wears out, whether the oil is changed regularly or not.

When I was in the business, we figured that a week of commercial use was about th equivalent of a full season of home use, and scheduled maintenance accordingly, we would use the winter months to rebuild most of the small engines. Since there are about 24-28 cutting weeks in a season, home users should expect to get at least 25-30 years from a decent quality machine.

Never change the oil, eh?

BMW Motorcycle tried that several years ago. rear drive unit was sealed at the factory. No need to change the rear drive oil, the Germans said.

After replacing more than several rear drive units under warranty, filler and drain plugs were added to all new BMW motorcycles.

quote:

Originally posted by ridewv:

quote:

Originally posted by Shaql:
....And you can pick all the nits you want, but I still don't change the oil (emptying a reservoir and refilling), I add to it....

I assume the same maintenance with your vehicles?

Don't be a douche. This thread is about a briggs and straton mower engine designed to consume oil. You want to point out all the problems with never changing the oil in your cars or bikes, start another thread.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

So you set it on the curb in 2018 and no one would take it?

Oh, it was picked up quickly. The problem is I has dyslexic fingers that will quite often mistake a d for an s. I went back and did a bit of editing to correct the mistake you spotted. And yes I am aware that the use of "has" as I just used it is colloquial in some areas but it is NOT proper grammar. Basically I was having a bit of fun and actually appreciate your pointing out the effect that one letter can have on meaning. So no grammar nazi thoughts, just a tip of the the hat to you for being so alert.

Planned obsolescence

Probably on the smaller cheaper disposable engines? Just guessing.
...and then there is the fine print I expect... (just guessing again) if dusty, harsh or commercial use conditions, change the oil every xxx hours.

I saw where the ZTR mower I have with the 28HP Vanguard twin now comes standard with a dry sump engine, separate oil tank with more capacity. Just like nascar engines! I think they do say easier and "extended" oil changes.

This is a marketing gimmick for uninformed consumers, nothing else. (Oh great, I don't have to change my oil. How convenient) Briggs and Stratton is in the business of selling engines. They WANT you to replace your mower and buy a new one every 5 years. They dont want you to properly maintain your 1987 Toro and use it for 36 years.

They did the math and the average throwaway mower is used for 30 hours a year and good for about 7-8 seasons before the rest of the mower falls apart around the engine. The deck rust away, the little plastic wheels fall off. They are making things cheaper and cheaper in this consumer society and people replace, rather than maintain, this kind of stuff.

The real answer is YES, the engine would benefit from proper maintenance, like oil changes. And yes, it will last longer with proper oil changes. These engines don't have oil filters. If you just continue to circulate grit around for years, anyone with a brain can obviously understand that would shorten the life of an engine.

I actually like maintaining my stuff so I personally change my oil yearly in all my equipment. If I owned one of these engines, I would as well. The proper way to change the oil in one of these mower engines is to warm the oil up, and then tip it over and drain the oil out of the oil fill hole.

quote:

Originally posted by bubbatime:
This is a marketing gimmick for uninformed consumers, nothing else.
The real answer is YES, the engine would benefit from proper maintenance, like oil changes. And yes, it will last longer with proper oil changes. These engines don't have oil filters. If you just continue to circulate grit around for years, anyone with a brain can obviously understand that would shorten the life of an engine. ..

Exactly. Before I glanced at the specs I assumed B&S at least designed these "special" engines with large oil capacity and some super efficient large capacity oil filter but they didn't. It's just a junk little 4hp engine that only holds 15 ounces of oil and NO oil filter! The whole engine only weighs 17 pounds.

I don't think modern briggs and station engines last long enough to require an oil change!!!!

I would change the oil annually, if it were mine.

Thanks for all the replies. Even though I only need a new mower for maybe five years (that's when we downsize and move into a senior facility), I'm still more comfortable with a "traditional" engine.

We've got lots of big box stores in the areas, either one of these will work:

https://www.lowes.com/pd/CRAFT...on-Engine/1000676311

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Po...PM21N625RH/320180471

quote:

Originally posted by Sigmund:
Thanks for all the replies. Even though I only need a new mower for maybe five years (that's when we downsize and move into a senior facility), I'm still more comfortable with a "traditional" engine.

We've got lots of big box stores in the areas, either one of these will work:

https://www.lowes.com/pd/CRAFT...on-Engine/1000676311

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Po...PM21N625RH/320180471

If you have a normal house size lot, you're probably better off with an EGO 56v electric motor. Lighter, easier to maneuver, and they work without having to deal with stale gas.

A consumer lawnmower is designed to be used ~1 hour a week for about ~30 weeks a year. 10 year life is 300 hours. 5 year life (more likely the design criteria) is 150 hours. Think about that...