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Originally posted by DaBigBR:
This is why we drill new cops about keeping their weapon hand free.

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Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

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Originally posted by DaBigBR:
This is why we drill new cops about keeping their weapon hand free.

So if you shoot right handed, you're now supposed to learn how to write left handed?

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Originally posted by gearhounds:

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Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by DaBigBR:
This is why we drill new cops about keeping their weapon hand free.

So if you shoot right handed, you're now supposed to learn how to write left handed?

There is a time to write, and a time to pick things up, accept things from others, use cell phones, etc. I'm not sure why he had anything in his hand in the first place unless he is deaf and could not hear the exchange taking place. Personally, I would have been ambulating in their direction as soon as the first indicator on non-cooperation took place.

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Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

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Originally posted by gearhounds:

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Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by DaBigBR:
This is why we drill new cops about keeping their weapon hand free.

So if you shoot right handed, you're now supposed to learn how to write left handed?

There is a time to write, and a time to pick things up, accept things from others, use cell phones, etc. I'm not sure why he had anything in his hand in the first place unless he is deaf and could not hear the exchange taking place. Personally, I would have been ambulating in their direction as soon as the first indicator on non-cooperation took place.

It looked like he was talking to and dealing with someone else who was present at the scene.

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Originally posted by gearhounds:
I get that, but some things bear putting off in the event of something like this. Situational awareness is everything, and this would scream "get the hell over and back up my partner".

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Originally posted by highroundcount:
Another thing I notices was that the dead guy took a long time to put his gun into play after he retrieved it.

I kept watching the video expecting him to put rounds into the cops back as he was running for cover.

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Originally posted by sigfreund:
Failing to make a good transition from something like writing a ticket to shooting is not uncommon. There seems to be some sort of psychological thing at work that keeps us from dropping what we’re holding. I run drills that require dropping an object like a clipboard before engaging a target for that reason.

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Originally posted by P220 Smudge:

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Originally posted by highroundcount:
Another thing I notices was that the dead guy took a long time to put his gun into play after he retrieved it.

I kept watching the video expecting him to put rounds into the cops back as he was running for cover.

I think that’s why they’re ruling it as “suicide by cop.” Everything was lackadaisical, and pretty much nothing about his actions said anything other than he was trying to get dead. That’s not in any way to say they shouldn’t have dropped him because he was presenting an immediate life threat. But if he was trying to effectively engage, it probably would have looked very different.

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Originally posted by gearhounds:
Ken should have dropped everything before drawing, obviously.

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Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
I saw this a few days ago. My impression with the officer who was nearest and took cover behind the vehicle had the guy dead-to-rights on the first viewing, and as the guy approached, I had the same feeling I’ve had when taking game: he was waiting for his perfect shot instead of pouring lead. For all that, it was even more gut-wrenching because it didn’t feel like hesitation or panic, he knew he was about to kill that guy and he had to do it right. First shot probably did it, guy reached right for his heart. Second shot because.

I noticed the guy gripping his pen and at first thought “I would’ve dropped it,” then I realized “yeah, maybe I wouldn’t have in the heat of things” and was impressed that he still engaged even though there was a hiccup in the process. First officer seemed to be given a clear shot because of this since the perp was looking at the officer across the roadway when he took the fatal rounds.

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Originally posted by gearhounds:
I get that, but some things bear putting off in the event of something like this. Situational awareness is everything, and this would scream "get the hell over and back up my partner".

He was taking notes on the accident. Traffic cops have been doing this exact same thing since traffic was a thing. The shooting started after he started taking notes. PreCog isn't A Thing Yet. He responded about as well as can be expected, honestly. He drew and put fire on the guy who was shooting at his partner. What's he supposed to do?

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Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
You know, I seemed to remember you were LEO, which is why your response surprised me. I'm sure you would have done it better.

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Originally posted by gearhounds:

Please. I watched the same video you did. I’ve been in similar situations. I’ve done my share of vestigations. When another officer is going back and forth on SFST’s, it’s obvious that the guy is failing to follow commands. If you are doing your job, you are paying attention (ie- situational awareness). At that point, you stop what you’re done by and change gears. “Precog”, as you put it, does not exist, but awareness does. He was close enough to hear the exchange, and see the resistant behavior.

As to the pen, we train in a scenario where you have to draw, you clear your hands. Automatically and reflexively. Handcuffs, batons, notepads, and yes, even pens.