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| Technically Adaptive |
My background has been taking cars/trucks apart, replacing worn parts, chasing electrical problems, etc., for many years. I would understand how the system, component(s), work and diagnose accordingly. There is a oil change interval for auto transmissions thread that led me to read up some on the ZF 9 SPD. Quote from link: The transmission has been problematic, as customers of Jeep, Chrysler, and Acura models equipped with the transmission have experienced problems in their vehicles regarding slow shifting and noisy operation. ZF has said this is due to software problems, not mechanical issues.[7] Chrysler issued Technical Service Bulletins (TSB) for the 2014 Jeep Cherokee to "fix rough and delayed gearshifts", and Acura has issued transmission-related recalls for the 2015 Acura TLX.[8][9] END Quote The link below gets very detailed on this transmission, to say it's over my head is a understatement. So, is it easy to create software for this transmission? just a couple hours work? Just wondering how difficult the process is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_9HP_transmission | ||
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| Member |
Sounds a little like common finger-pointing. I have written software and worked on transmissions (never at the same time). It makes me lightheaded to think of all of the inputs and decisions being made during a drive. We have a 2017 Pacifica with that transmission, and it drives great. | |||
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| Thank you Very little  |
Everything is software driven today, ECM, BCM, can-bus systems use these "computers" to send signals to components vs the old switch and relay systems of yore. | |||
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| Technically Adaptive |
Yes, I understand that from a repair perspective. I do not know how long it takes to create this software, does it come from the transmission manufacturer or the vehicle manufacturer. If ZF blames the software, who created it. | |||
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Member |
There is, in the olden days, a serious disconnect between the humanly understandable software and what is in the actual vehicle computer. Granted, this is seriously old information, but I wanted you to know this might be the situation today. In the mid-1980s, the computer required a hexadecimal program, that was compiled from a humanly readable program. Today, I'm sure things are better. But, why even start doing this? It is SO complex. Timing of signals, handoffs from BCM to TCM to ECM, it is a nightmare. A skilled "tuner" can handle basic parameter changes and install better shift logic, or whatever. But, today's programmers are using aftermarket programs, laptops, and lots of expensive systems to facilitate any change. Working with ZF, as ZF is a Tier 1 supplier to various European OEMs, I can assure you that you will NOT understand their software. German. Very different assumptions, as well as a predilection to absolutely define and control each and every aspect of their transmission...it is brutal to attempt anything. We had to work for years and years and years to get any ZF approval for a new lubricant. In the end, any effort was for naught. ------- Trying to simplify my life... | |||
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Member |
My guess is it comes from the vehicle manufacturer. But whether it comes from them or from the transmission manufacturer, you would have to integrate your changes with the factory software. And they're not likely to be willing to give you the source code for that. I've heard of companies that will sell you a modified "tune" (via a firmware update) for some engine/transmission setups, that give you different shift points and whatnot. It might be possible for one of them to help you out with a software update for your setup. I don't recall who they are, though. | |||
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| come and take it |
I don't have any particular insider insight, but I'm guessing most people would be shocked how many lines of code are managing the 10 speed transmission in an F150. "The left can't applaud me because their hands are in other people's pockets." - Javier Milei | |||
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| Technically Adaptive |
Thank you for your reply, I'm retired now, 40 years of seeing "improvements" of vehicles. Reflashing and data transfers to new components, etc. I'm not looking to improve any thing I own, it just seems odd that for the cost of new rides that they would have their act together by now with the new technology. They have to pass FED emissions with the software for new models, yet they cannot get the transmission to shift properly? ZF may be using it for an excuse that they screwed up (as previously mentioned). For a vehicle that costs around $50k now there should be no programming issues. I'm beginning to think that new cars are beyond hope, software cannot keep up. Just wondering if it's overwhelming now to the point of unrealistic, I have very little insight on the creation of something that has to be reflashed , why send out that way sorta thing. | |||
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Shall Not Be Infringed |
ZF makes EXCELLENT transmissions and they're installed on MANY European high performance cars. I would not be surprised at all to learn that a Chrysler software issue is the culprit! ____________________________________________________________ If Some is Good, and More is Better.....then Too Much, is Just Enough !! Trump 47....Making America Great Again! "May Almighty God bless the United States of America" - parabellum 7/26/20 Live Free or Die! | |||
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| Member |
I am not a software engineer but I am familiar with this type of problem. My Lexus has a transmission software issue. There are hundreds of engineers working on the problem. They work for billion dollar corporations. They are rolling out the fix as a try it see if it works basis. One of the most basic problems for an end user is you would need the "software key" to get into the software. The likelihood of you getting your hands on the one you need is slim and none. Unless you well connected to the hacker community. You would need a small fortune in hardware to connect to the software so you could play with it. Of course if you brick it, they company is going to say you broke it you own it. This is not a trivial problem. | |||
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| Speaks Bendablese |
The software itself is developed by the transmission manufacturer. The OEMs then integrate with ZF for their own unique calibration of the base software which is unique to each vehicle model or even different trim/package levels of each model. There can be varying versions of both the software and the calibration. | |||
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McNoob |
For someone off the street with general programming XP and transmission XP, possible yes, probable no. "We've done four already, but now we're steady..." | |||
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Optimistic Cynic |
It would be a fairly routine matter to create a simple decision loop for a particular sensor array, however, when required to integrate your loop with hundreds (thousands?) of other loops, it quickly gets complicated, mix with a tight instruction budget with real-time requirements, and the complications soon get well out of hand. This is one place that I expect AI to outpace humans in the near term despite the vehicle industry's long demonstrated hesitancy to implement technological advancements. | |||
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