A gent was telling me today an accidental discharge in your house in AZ can be prosecuted as a felony. I countered with- if it’s accidental how can you prove intent? Any one familiar with any cases of this?

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if it’s accidental how can you prove intent?

Intent in an accident? That makes no sense. There can be no intent, when it's truly an accident.

Show the relevant Arizona statute that supports the premise that "...an accidental discharge in your house in AZ can be prosecuted as a felony..."

I looked at the link of AZ statute 13-3107 and do not see anything that makes the OP a clear factual statement.

I guess if you equate "criminal negligence" as used in the statute with "accidental" then sure. Sort of like a car accident can truly be an "accident" but often there is negligence involved on the part of someone.

However, the following section also applies allowing the court to make it a misdemeanor:

https://www.azleg.gov/viewdocu...gov/ars/13/00604.htm

Vast majority of ADs are really NDs.
Mechanical failure is about the only way you can have an accident.

I’d say while that is on the books, it is rarely used.

I'd bet dollars to donuts that the relevant statute actually criminalizes recklessness and/or negligence. Both of those are actually relatively high standards to meet.

ETA: Read the statute and it does indeed say "with criminal negligence". In Arizona, that means: with respect to a result or to a circumstance described by a statute defining an offense, that a person fails to perceive a substantial and unjustifiable risk that the result will occur or that the circumstance exists. The risk must be of such nature and degree that the failure to perceive it constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care that a reasonable person would observe in the situation.

That's what I like about the law... it's all written down and it ain't hard to find.

So... Should it be a crime to handle a firearm in a criminally negligent (as defined above) manner and crank a round off? Yeah, probably.

One definition of accident: “an unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury.” [Emphasis added.]

I see this “negligence” versus “accident” in these discussions all the time. Merely because something was due to negligence doesn’t mean it wasn’t an accident. The question is whether it was intentional. If I knock over a glass of milk because I put it too close to where I reaching across the Thanksgiving table, I may have contributed to the act by not having anticipated what might happen—i.e., I was negligent—but it was still an accident because I didn’t intend to spill milk on the centerpiece.

The difference is even outlined in the usual laws pertaining to a coroner’s determinations about the manner of someone’s death. The “manners” are homicide, suicide, accidental, natural, or undetermined. If I don’t intend to kill anyone when I negligently discharge a shot into the apartment next door, it’s still an accident if the bullet hits someone. And BTW, “homicide” is an intent determination as well. If I intended to kill someone, whether it was murder or justifiable self-defense, it’s homicide.

There was an incident at a gun show in Phoenix a few years ago where, IIRC, a crate was dropped, a loaded gun discharged and a woman, who was a vendor was hit in the neck. She survived, but I never heard about a prosecution later on.

quote:

Originally posted by greco:

A gent was telling me today an accidental discharge in your house in AZ can be prosecuted as a felony. I countered with- if it’s accidental how can you prove intent? Any one familiar with any cases of this?

The very first sentence of the legislation specifies "negligence."

I don't think that you can have "intent" with "negligence."

We had a similar “discharge a firearm within the city limits” law in The town I worked in NC. It was very rarely used. Most of the shootings we had were thugs shooting thugs...

So people were charged with:
Assault with a deadly weapon
Shooting into an occupied dwelling
Shooting into an occupied vehicle

I only once charged a man with the city ordinance, because his neighbors heard a gunshot, pointed to where they saw a man with a gun shooting, and when we investigated we found the homeowner had indeed shot into the ground and his home to frighten some drug dealers away....bullet holes in the porch and dug up rounds in the wet yard.

He was trying to rip off the drug dealer who came to his house (he was on house arrest and was monitored)And he was a FELON. So I hit him with the city charge to establish the use of the gun, then we got a search warrant And found the gun in the house.

But that was once in 18 years. So I’d say a similar charge in AZ would be used about that frequently.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
I don't think that you can have "intent" with "negligence."

I’m getting into lawyer land now, so perhaps one will chime in and explain why I’m befuddled with this, but in my very first law class the instructor stressed that “intent” was a crucial element of crime. My immediate thought, though, was about things like negligent homicide (a different type of homicide than what I mentioned about a manner of death, but that’s the law for you). “How,” I wondered, “could someone be charged with killing someone by accident if he was just being a dumb ass and careless, but didn’t intend to kill anyone?”

The answer is that “intent” doesn’t always mean an intended outcome. If I intentionally do something that is wrong (usually unlawful), then that’s sufficient intent for the law even if I didn’t intend for a really bad outcome. An example would be if I’m on the street and someone pushes me with a, “Get out of the way, old man!” If that push causes me to fall and hit my head on the curb and thereby causes my death, the intent of the (possibly) ultimate crime of manslaughter would have been the otherwise relatively minor, but intentional, assault and battery committed when I was pushed.

Lack of due care when performing certain acts can also be enough for the intent. If I shoot at a target tacked to a tree that’s in line with a residential area a hundred yards away and one of my shots hits someone there, my intentional shooting with wanton disregard for others’ safety, i.e., negligence, could be the “intent” the law requires to charge me with negligent homicide (or perhaps something like reckless endangerment).

This link is to Title 13 of AZ revised statutes dealing with criminal violations, excluding liquor laws which is Title 4 or Title 28 which is traffic law.

https://www.azleg.gov/arsDetail/?title=13

Most crimes require 'intent'. The definitions define intent, reckless and negligence.

Prosecutors use a standard of 'likelihood of conviction' when charging.

This whole statute came about because of a dumbass shooting into the air on New Years Eve killing a young girl. (No, they never did find the shooter)

As Mike noted, there are plenty of crimes that can be charged with regard to gang banger type shootings.
This one is usually reserved for the azzholes that “celebrate” with gunfire like some goofy Iraqi.

Her name was Shannon Smith, just 14 years old and killed in June 1999. She was in the back yard of her central Phoenix home. The result was the creation of Arizona Revised Statute #13-3107, “Shannon's Law,” which makes it a felony for anyone “who with criminal negligence discharges a firearm within or into the limits of any municipality” in Arizona.

In January of 2018, on BLM land near Buckeye used for target shooting, Kami Gilstrap was killed by a stray bullet. It also killed her unborn child. The shooter was never identified in her death, either.

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A gent was telling me today an accidental discharge in your house in AZ can be prosecuted as a felony.

If inside one's house and nobody else heard it to report it, it didn't happen.

quote:

Originally posted by egregore:

quote:

A gent was telling me today an accidental discharge in your house in AZ can be prosecuted as a felony.

If inside one's house and nobody else heard it to report it, it didn't happen.

My thought as well.

My dad used to have a barrel of old rags in his workshop he sometimes tested .22 pistols into when working on them. We had a lot of space and neighbors were all gun people. But I doubt anyone could hear it even in an HOA neighborhood in Phoenix.

quote:

Originally posted by az4783054:
Her name was Shannon Smith, just 14 years old and killed in June 1999. She was in the back yard of her central Phoenix home. The result was the creation of Arizona Revised Statute #13-3107, “Shannon's Law,” which makes it a felony for anyone “who with criminal negligence discharges a firearm within or into the limits of any municipality” in Arizona.

In January of 2018, on BLM land near Buckeye used for target shooting, Kami Gilstrap was killed by a stray bullet. It also killed her unborn child. The shooter was never identified in her death, either.

I remember both of these events. Heartbreaking.