SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  The Lounge    Is Tesla Motors a current-day Enron?
Page 1 2 3 
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
Is Tesla Motors a current-day Enron? Login/Join 
Member
posted
They were The Smartest Guys in the Room. Until they weren't.

Will Tesla become dominant in their segment? Or will they become another smoke-and-mirrors cautionary tale?

Curious what the financial minds of the Forum think.

Having watched Wall Street for ~25 years we have seen the 'cult of personality' move the meter even when the product line is thin. Recent example is Theranos.

I'm on the fence about this one...

---------------------------------
 
Posts: 8940 | Location: Florida | Registered: September 20, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Thank you
Very little
Picture of HRK
posted Hide Post
With the cost of fuel dropping massively automakers have big problems selling hybrids and of course electric cars, the buyers are now simply those that need an ego support for their neighbors to know they are green, rich, and trendy.

Tesla has been running on government funds for every sale CA and Federal rebates have made the cars profitable, last I heard some of those rebate programs lapsed.

There is something wrong with the feds giving taxpayer dollars to Musk to encourage wealthy people for a discount on a purchase of a $100,000+ luxury car they clearly don't need a discount on based on average income.

Worldwide fuel prices and availability being the key to any alternative fuel vehicle. Tesla has done it very well, I wonder if it would have survived not having federal and state dollars propping it up...
 
Posts: 24491 | Location: Gunshine State | Registered: November 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
No double standards
posted Hide Post
Not to worry, Solar City will bring Tesla's numbers up. Musk is now working on his next successful venture, to colonize Mars. Wink

There is a diff between Enron and Tesla. Enron's performance was going downhill, and they cooked the books to hide it. Tesla's numbers don't look very good, but they are not likely cooking the books. That said, I don't know if Tesla will really turn things around. As noted, it seems gov't subsidies are keeping them afloat . . . and when you run out of other people's money to spend. . .




"Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women. When it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it....While it lies there, it needs no constitution, no law, no court to save it"
- Judge Learned Hand, May 1944
 
Posts: 30668 | Location: UT | Registered: November 11, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Tesla is the number 5 car maker by market cap.
and the largest us car company by market cap.

It produced 80,000 cars a year and plans to produce 550,000 soon, if it can.

Ford produced 6,600,000 cars world wide is valued Less than Tesla.

In my opinion something has to give.
 
Posts: 4793 | Registered: February 15, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Info Guru
Picture of BamaJeepster
posted Hide Post
The tax breaks are going away and TN has actually put a surtax of $100 extra to register an electric vehicle (TN uses registration fees and gas tax fees for roads - since electrics/hybrids don't pay as much gas tax but still use the roads, they have to pay extra to register every year now).

Electrics won't be practical for me until they get to the 250-300 mile range.



“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
- John Adams
 
Posts: 29408 | Location: In the red hinterlands of Deep Blue VA | Registered: June 29, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Interestingly, Volvo just announced it was phasing out conventional internal combustion engines.
 
Posts: 958 | Registered: October 07, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
"Too big to fail" is what comes to mind. Tunnel digger man valued more than Ford? Yeah, that doesn't smell right.
 
Posts: 3679 | Location: Texas Hill Country | Registered: July 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Ice Cream Man
posted Hide Post
Any other company would have had its Board in handcuffs for Solar City.

If they were smart, they would buy GM, it would be a hell of a play and cement them as the best con men since Joe Kennedy, but they would survive
 
Posts: 5981 | Location: Republic of Ice Cream, Low Country, SC. | Registered: May 24, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
No double standards
posted Hide Post
I don't think Tesla has ever generated a profit. But worse, their cashflow from operations continues to be negative -- it takes more cash to build and deliver a Tesla than the cash they get selling a Tesla. And it seems to me their acquisition of Solar City maybe added dead weight.

Their market cap is a sign of the markets confidence in a future miracle.




"Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women. When it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it....While it lies there, it needs no constitution, no law, no court to save it"
- Judge Learned Hand, May 1944
 
Posts: 30668 | Location: UT | Registered: November 11, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Knows too little
about too much
Picture of rduckwor
posted Hide Post
My understanding is that Tesla is living off the government's hand in the form of incentives. I do not own it and would not be interested until they show some profit.

I fear a lot of people are going to get hurt on Tesla.

RMD




TL Davis: “The Second Amendment is special, not because it protects guns, but because its violation signals a government with the intention to oppress its people…”
Remember: After the first one, the rest are free.
 
Posts: 20407 | Location: L.A. - Lower Alabama | Registered: April 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Thank you
Very little
Picture of HRK
posted Hide Post
I heard William Clays password at Ford is Elon Musk Sucks....
 
Posts: 24491 | Location: Gunshine State | Registered: November 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Get my pies
outta the oven!

Picture of PASig
posted Hide Post
They are toys for rich, guilty people.

Not for us working guys.


 
Posts: 34973 | Location: Pennsylvania | Registered: November 12, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
thin skin can't win
Picture of Georgeair
posted Hide Post
One of my favorites from my time at "the firm previously know as Arthur"




You only have integrity once. - imprezaguy02

 
Posts: 12831 | Location: Madison, MS | Registered: December 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Political Cynic
Picture of nhtagmember
posted Hide Post
^^^

thats good - hadn't seen that before but I like it Smile



[B] Against ALL enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC


 
Posts: 53947 | Location: Tucson Arizona | Registered: January 16, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Solyndra with wheels.


____________________________________________________

The butcher with the sharpest knife has the warmest heart.
 
Posts: 13510 | Location: Bottom of Lake Washington | Registered: March 06, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Conservative in Nor Cal constantly swimming
up stream
Picture of PR64
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by braillediver:
Solyndra with wheels.


Yup....and they are geographically only about a mile apart on I-880 in Fremont Ca.

I drive past the Tesla plant and the old Solyndra building all the time.


-----------------------------------
Get your guns b4 the Dems take them away
Sig P-229
Sig P-220 Combat
 
Posts: 3678 | Location: Nor Cal | Registered: January 25, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Just because you can,
doesn't mean you should
posted Hide Post
I wonder if the environmentalists will ever figure out that electricity doesn't come from the sun. Most anyway.
Coal, natural gas, nukes, and yes a tiny bit is solar, but most is traditionally generated by people Al Gore claims are trying to end the world.
Then when you figure the environmental issues caused by the manufacture and eventual disposal of the batteries they are much less appealing.


___________________________
Avoid buying ChiCom/CCP products whenever possible.
 
Posts: 9907 | Location: NE GA | Registered: August 22, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Now in Florida
Picture of ChicagoSigMan
posted Hide Post
When people call them "electric" or 'battery powered" cars, I correct them and say that they are coal powered or natural gas powered cars.

I also think it's a mistake to think of tesla as a car company. It is more appropriate to call them a battery company or a renewable energy storage company. The cars are just goods that allow them to sell batteries. That's also why I think they did the Solar City deal. It will increase their ability to place large capacity batteries in the market.
 
Posts: 6084 | Location: FL | Registered: March 09, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Ice Cream Man
posted Hide Post
They did it to get the board members bailed out of a bad investment
 
Posts: 5981 | Location: Republic of Ice Cream, Low Country, SC. | Registered: May 24, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
JOIN, or DIE
posted Hide Post
Was discussing this with a buddy. I think Tesla has major issues. Friend says I dont understand expanding business. My point was that at some point they are going to need to turn the corner and start making some serious money.
 
Posts: 3576 | Registered: February 25, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2 3  
 

SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  The Lounge    Is Tesla Motors a current-day Enron?

© SIGforum 2024