Tesla’s Autopilot is suspected in the fatal rear endings of two motorcyclists.

Tesla has just confirmed that it has removed radar from the Model S and Model X as of mid-February 2022, moving its entire lineup to what it calls 'Tesla Vision,' which is an array of cameras that Tesla says negates the need for radar.Feb 25, 2022



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRdzIs4FJJg

No it wasn’t. Drivers who aren’t driving are responsible.

I was taught in MSF almost 25 years ago, on a bike you want to be doing 5-10 mph faster than the flow of traffic on the highway. I constantly check my mirrors so I would have sped up, laid on the horn, and would have been flipping off the Tesla driver.

Autopilot on these cars keeps coming up but it’s always the inattentive douche behind the steering wheel at fault. You are supposed to be paying attention.

quote:

Originally posted by Prefontaine:
I was taught in MSF almost 25 years ago, on a bike you want to be doing 5-10 mph faster than the flow of traffic on the road.

Yes. And carry a Chiappa 1887 LEVER-ACTION T-MODEL SHOTGUN (MATTE BLUE) 12GA/18.5"BBL for those annoyingl persistent cyborg threats.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
No it wasn’t. Drivers who aren’t driving are responsible.

THIS x1000

Maybe. But the fact is as a motorcyclist, if you’re going to ride, you’re just a responsible for what’s behind you as ahead and behind. If you’re checking your mirrors then a Tesla (or anything else) should be able to rear end you.

quote:

Originally posted by mojojojo:
Maybe. But the fact is as a motorcyclist, if you’re going to ride, you’re just a responsible for what’s behind you as ahead and behind. If you’re checking your mirrors then a Tesla (or anything else) should be able to rear end you.

I have to disagree that your responsible for a vehicle rear ending you. Should you be aware of your surroundings, absolutely, but to say you can prevent this from happening is a little much.

He has a point. I was taught by multiple instructors, MSF and track instructors that anything is YOUR fault. You’ve got power, brakes, it’s your fault because whatever it is, if you are riding properly, treating all vehicles like they are trying to kill you, you always have an out.

I can’t believe their lawyers allow them to call it autopilot.

quote:

Tesla has just confirmed that it has removed radar from the Model S and Model X as of mid-February 2022, moving its entire lineup to what it calls 'Tesla Vision,' which is an array of cameras that Tesla says negates the need for radar.

Radar does things that cameras don't. Like see things in fog or other low visibility weather conditions. Within limits, of course.

Radar has also been good at estimating how quickly one is approaching an object and helping determine if the brakes should be applied. Quite simply, as the name Radar implies, it is good at measuring the absolute distance to an object.

interesting video by the way.

In my opinion, people stopped “driving” when all this shit in cars became automated. The person in the driver seat has to do less and be engaged less in actually driving the vehicle. Ironically, all the safety features, in my opinion, are making drivers less safe.

Fuck. Even in aircraft we constantly monitor the autopilot. In a car it is this x100.

“if you are riding properly, treating all vehicles like they are trying to kill you”

This^^^^^^^^^^^!!

quote:

Originally posted by Prefontaine:
He has a point. I was taught by multiple instructors, MSF and track instructors that anything is YOUR fault. You’ve got power, brakes, it’s your fault because whatever it is, if you are riding properly, treating all vehicles like they are trying to kill you, you always have an out.

I'm curious, and this is not sarcasm, but how much have you ridden? I've ridden a fair amount over the past 20 years and I can tell you without hesitation, you do not always have an out regardless how much attention you're paying. People can't drive for the most part and function completely irrationally. I once saw a car smash into a pair of motorcycles stopped two deep at a red light. The motorcycle riders were sitting ducks with no options.

IMO, the more they automate cars the more dangerous and unsafe things will become as people pay less and less attention to what they're doing. Regardless, Tesla should not be allowed to market this software as 'Autopilot'. 'Driver Assist' maybe, but not autopilot.

Who owns the vehicle? At the end of the day they are the ones who will be held responsible. Tesla or anyone else developing this tech...they are in the transition phase of its development, meaning that people are going to die in real world situations while the bugs get worked out. This isn’t the first or last time this will happen with technological leaps. Think about it, when we first got the automobile, they were extremely crude, suspension sucked and it took a man to physically steer it. Fast forward a bunch of time and we fixed a lot of that and added a whole new set of problems with TOO MUCH TECH in vehicles making people dumbass idiots who can’t figure out what a physical key is used for!!! Keep It Simple Stupid.

A motorcyclist was recently killed in Utah back in July by a driver using the autopilot in his Tesla. He was rear ended as well just after one in the morning.

quote:

Originally posted by jcsabolt2:
Who owns the vehicle? At the end of the day they are the ones who will be held responsible. Tesla or anyone else developing this tech...they are in the transition phase of its development, meaning that people are going to die in real world situations while the bugs get worked out.

And they will die after the bugs get worked out, too. No human driver is perfect. Neither could any 'bug-less' self-driving car be perfect.

Software developers, car companies, component manufacturers, dealerships, etc. would be well-advised to consider the financial aspects of this, in our plaintiff-attorney-driven society. It's a good bet that insurers, being aware of the astronomical compensatory and punitive damage awards being handed out by judges as well as juries these days, will price liability coverage appropriately. Deep pockets, beware.

quote:

Originally posted by gpbst3:
I have to disagree that your responsible for a vehicle rear ending you. Should you be aware of your surroundings, absolutely, but to say you can prevent this from happening is a little much.

I'm not saying you can control how another person (or the car itself in this case) drives. But I am saying that as a motorcyclist YOU are responsible for everything that happens to you. If you have the mindset that there are just some situations that you can't control or at least be prepared for and anticipate then your a statistic waiting to happen.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:
I'm curious, and this is not sarcasm, but how much have you ridden? I've ridden a fair amount over the past 20 years and I can tell you without hesitation, you do not always have an out regardless how much attention you're paying. People can't drive for the most part and function completely irrationally. I once saw a car smash into a pair of motorcycles stopped two deep at a red light. The motorcycle riders were sitting ducks with no options.

I respectfully disagree. You should always have an "out." Always. The out may not be great and it may not be pretty, and it may be the lesser of two evils, but if you're going to ride I would highly recommend that a motorcyclist look for an identify outs all the time. In your example, a car smashed into a pair of motorcycles stopped at red light. You say the riders were sitting ducks with no options. That's not correct. A motorcyclist who pulls up behind a car in traffic without positioning themselves for an out IS a sitting duck I agree. You're betting your life that the people who come up behind you will stop. In the case you site they bet wrong.

What could they have done differently? I wasn't there so I'm speculating, but here are my suggestions. 1 - don't pull up close to the vehicle ahead of you. Leave plenty of room between you and them to maneuver if needed. 2 - don't be centered in the lane. Be on one side or the other so you can quickly pull up beside the cars in front of you if needed. 3 - don't sit there in neutral. Keep the bike in 1st gear and be ready to immediately pull away at any moment. 4 - identify your "out" verbally. Know what it is so there is no hesitation or guesswork if you find you need to use it. 5 - watch your mirrors at all times. If there is any doubt the vehicle behind you might not stop, move immediately and use your pre0identified out.


Yes, it's a hard concept to accept and many riders never will accept the idea that they are 100% responsible for everything that happens to them. They prefer to go along with ideas such as "I had to lay 'er down" and other notions that there was nothing they could do about a poor situation. Yes, if they ride like they drive and daydream or are not always completely focused on the task at hand, then sure they'll get surprised one day and have to pay the price for their inattention. But it doesn't have to be that way. Do cars pull out in front of motorcycles? Do drivers change lanes on top of motorcycles? Do cars fail to stop for stopped traffic? Do cars turn in front of motorcycles? Yes. This happens and happens all the time. Some say there's nothing they can do about it. I say there is. These things happen and happen all the time. So if they do, it's your responsibility as a rider to be prepared for them when they do.

quote:

Originally posted by jcsabolt2:
Who owns the vehicle? At the end of the day they are the ones who will be held responsible.

Correct. The driver of the vehicle will most likely be the one held legally responsible. As a motorcyclist you may be 100% right. My point is that you don't want to be dead right.



I've been riding for over 10 years with well over 60k miles. I'm also a nationally certified instructor with the Motorcycle Safety Foundation. This is what we teach riders. Except instead of "outs" we call them "escape paths." They're out there. You just have to look for them and plan how you're going to use them. Always. You've got to play the "what if" game as you ride to be prepared when that what if becomes an oh shit moment.

A lot of people don't realize that riding a motorcycle is as much mental is it is physical, if not more so. Ride safe and often.