Question For NFA Experts Or LE - Update 10/17 - Federal Warrant?
I had a tenant, a (former) friend of mine, who had rented a house from me since 2013. He formed a trust and had several silencers along with at least one SBR. I don't believe he had anything that was automatic. Trust was set up at that address and those items were stored in a gun safe there.
Something went wrong very quickly. I'm assuming it is drug related. Stopped paying rent, stopped paying insurance, stopped making car payments. When I asked him to vacate the property roughly April of this year, the power had been off for over a month. He came back recently to steal a few things stored in a detached garage on the property.
I know his NFA items aren't something that can be traded like a regular firearm. I had assumed that he may have sold them back to the dealer he purchased them from at some point, but when I spoke to that dealer the other day he said he had not.
I know nothing as a fact at this point other than he, his trust, and his NFA items no longer occupy the address on record. At this point he is likely homeless. Neighbors saw him on our property (there to steal) for a few days in a row, apparently sleeping in the sunroom or detached garage. I'm concerned that he has sold/given/traded these items to those who shouldn't have them.
Should I be concerned? Would the ATF or other law enforcement even care?This message has been edited. Last edited by: a1abdj,
Given the situation in its entirety (theft, trespass, possible drug use and NFA) time for a call to the local cops. Makes sure you retain the date / time of your report, the responding officers name and any dispatch number, call or case number the responding agency assigns. And no phone conferences either. Face to face with LE. Cant hurt to CYA.
End of Earth: 2 Miles Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles
August 26, 2019, 04:32 PM
Sig2340
Since you have no evidence (just suspicion) of illegal behavior, I doubt any LE agency, including BATFE is going to care.
The only NFA notification legally required is for taking his SBR out of state. If the SBR and cans stay in-state, so far as I know he's not obligated to inform BATFE of anything about his new address, or lack thereof. There may be state or local requirements to do so, but I'm not familiar with your state.
I'd be wary of running into him; however, it seems like he left of his own accord rather than by being evicted. I'd get in, clear his remaining property out, change the locks, and look for a new tenant.
Nice is overrated
"It's every freedom-loving individual's duty to lie to the government." Airsoftguy, June 29, 2018
August 26, 2019, 04:44 PM
lyman
have you filed charges on the theft issues?
if not, and he has no other record since his last NFA purchase, there may not be anything you can do,
a call to the ATF (either the local branch or the NFA branch ) may help, or not, depends,
FWIW, I bought a MG off a guy a year or so ago that had gotten himself in some trouble and had to dispose all his firearms,
I filed out the forms to transfer it to my SOT (I have a FFL\SOT) and included a note asking to expedite the paperwork due to his court order and it was approved very quickly,,
so the NFA branch may get involved,, if they find he has a record now,,
If you do change address, you are required to give BATEF a change off address notification....on the old stamps there is a paragraph discussing this very thing, and you were supposed to just send a letter....when I moved, they sent me a form back and asked me to fill in the pertinent info and new address and check “permanent change of address”
ATF form 5320.20....specifically #5.
Easy peasy
But it’s not your stuff, not your trust and not your problem....wrt his stuff.....
"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.” Robert A. Heinlein
“You may beat me, but you will never win.” sigmonkey-2020
“A single round of buckshot to the torso almost always results in an immediate change of behavior.” Chris Baker
August 26, 2019, 06:10 PM
Dakor
^^^^ If the NFA items are still on his (the OP’s property), how is it not his problem? He can’t confiscate the items and is asking for limited guidance as to what potential steps to take.
August 26, 2019, 06:15 PM
berto
Hate to say it but I'd contact an attorney versed in this area of law and have them contact ATF for possible turn in of NFA items. Cover your ass, unfortunately with some money, so you don't get bitten.
August 26, 2019, 06:42 PM
kimber1911
From your post this is all that I see for you to be concerned with.
quote:
He came back recently to steal a few things stored in a detached garage on the property.
quote:
Neighbors saw him on our property (there to steal) for a few days in a row, apparently sleeping in the sunroom or detached garage.
Everything else is purely speculative. The items above also need some definitive proof beyond simply a neighbor saw him.
“We’re in a situation where we have put together, and you guys did it for our administration…President Obama’s administration before this. We have put together, I think, the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics,” Pres. Select, Joe Biden
“Let’s go, Brandon” Kelli Stavast, 2 Oct. 2021
August 26, 2019, 06:49 PM
jsbcody
Skip local LEO, contact your local ATF office (314-269-2200) and explain the situation to them. They may go after him for the no notification on moving and should request an inspection of any NFA items listed for him. At that point if he doesn't have them or can't explain where they are, he is screwed.
Also maybe put up a surveillance or game camera on the property/garage.
August 26, 2019, 08:39 PM
220-9er
I understand why you are concerned and would contact ATF and local LE. A CYA record of letting them know so they can take appropriate action, if any.
Your name is on the property where these items were registered. Erratic and criminal behavior by this person. I’m sure you don’t want to be “that guy” that saw something and didn’t say something if bad things happen. Drugs and who knows what else.
If someone is evicted, can they store their NFA items in a safe at a storage facility?
If so, and they have not yet found a new place to live, would they need to report the address of the storage facility to the ATF?
Seems as if you would need a new address to report a change of address.
“We’re in a situation where we have put together, and you guys did it for our administration…President Obama’s administration before this. We have put together, I think, the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics,” Pres. Select, Joe Biden
“Let’s go, Brandon” Kelli Stavast, 2 Oct. 2021
August 26, 2019, 10:09 PM
MikeinNC
quote:
Originally posted by Dakor: ^^^^ If the NFA items are still on his (the OP’s property), how is it not his problem? He can’t confiscate the items and is asking for limited guidance as to what potential steps to take.
If the other guys NFA items are somehow found to be on the OPs property, after the guy abandons it, then he should call the ATF. Otherwise the rest of it is just hypothetical.
"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.” Robert A. Heinlein
“You may beat me, but you will never win.” sigmonkey-2020
“A single round of buckshot to the torso almost always results in an immediate change of behavior.” Chris Baker
August 26, 2019, 10:57 PM
kimber1911
quote:
Trust was set up at that address and those items were stored in a gun safe there.
I read it as “were stored” past tense, as in no longer.
“We’re in a situation where we have put together, and you guys did it for our administration…President Obama’s administration before this. We have put together, I think, the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics,” Pres. Select, Joe Biden
“Let’s go, Brandon” Kelli Stavast, 2 Oct. 2021
August 27, 2019, 09:16 AM
Sig2340
quote:
Originally posted by MikeinNC: If you do change address, you are required to give BATEF a change off address notification....on the old stamps there is a paragraph discussing this very thing, and you were supposed to just send a letter....when I moved, they sent me a form back and asked me to fill in the pertinent info and new address and check “permanent change of address”
ATF form 5320.20....specifically #5.
Easy peasy
But it’s not your stuff, not your trust and not your problem....wrt his stuff.....
Except Form 5320.20 is for transportation INTERstate or for the temporary export of DDs, MGZS, SBSs, and SBRs.
So I agree that if you move from one state to another form 5320.20 must be submitted; however, so far as I know there is nothing requiring submission of a notice of address change if you move within the same state. It makes sense this would be the case, as the fed.gov can only regulate INTERstate commerce.
Nice is overrated
"It's every freedom-loving individual's duty to lie to the government." Airsoftguy, June 29, 2018
August 27, 2019, 09:49 AM
220-9er
I don't think the OP's question was, is he required to do this stuff, clearly not as he doesn't own it and it's not in his name. He is concerned that this guy has gone off the rails mentally, committing clearly illegal acts and he knows the guy had some weapons that could or may have ended up in the wrong hands.
Originally posted by a1abdj: I had a tenant, a (former) friend of mine, who had rented a house from me since 2013. He formed a trust and had several silencers along with at least one SBR. I don't believe he had anything that was automatic. Trust was set up at that address and those items were stored in a gun safe there.
Something went wrong very quickly. I'm assuming it is drug related. Stopped paying rent, stopped paying insurance, stopped making car payments. When I asked him to vacate the property roughly April of this year, the power had been off for over a month. He came back recently to steal a few things stored in a detached garage on the property.
I know his NFA items aren't something that can be traded like a regular firearm. I had assumed that he may have sold them back to the dealer he purchased them from at some point, but when I spoke to that dealer the other day he said he had not.
I know nothing as a fact at this point other than he, his trust, and his NFA items no longer occupy the address on record. At this point he is likely homeless. Neighbors saw him on our property (there to steal) for a few days in a row, apparently sleeping in the sunroom or detached garage. I'm concerned that he has sold/given/traded these items to those who shouldn't have them.
Should I be concerned? Would the ATF or other law enforcement even care?
As to whether local LE or ATF would care, I can’t say.
But.......
If this is heavy on your conscious, I’d report it to local LE. If they have a full time firearms investigator, if he’s on the ball, he’ll look at it. I would. It has zero to do with NFA items and everything to do with if he’s thieving from you, he’s thieving from others. This is especially true if dope and guns are involved. It all goes together. It’s worth running him on LEADs, nothing else to take a look at his pawn history. That’s going to take 5 minutes of somebody’s time and will likely have some clues.
ATF on face value might look into it from the NFA standpoint. Most likely it would be handed off to an inspector and not a special agent based upon what you have.
If I can help you out in any way, my email is in profile. I wish you the best on this.
if he's got a federal warrant just call the local guys if you see him, you will want to let them know the guy has a federal warrant, which they will have to verify before setting hands on him
"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.” Robert A. Heinlein
“You may beat me, but you will never win.” sigmonkey-2020
“A single round of buckshot to the torso almost always results in an immediate change of behavior.” Chris Baker
October 17, 2019, 11:28 AM
slosig
quote:
Originally posted by a1abdj: The local police apparently know this, but while working with me on a related matter failed to mention it.
The FBI makes a big thing about information being a one way street (they don’t tell you jack or provide reports), but regular LE doesn’t go out of their way to share everything they know either with the public. There are lots of good reasons for this.