quote:

Originally posted by Tirod:
There's another issue - GFCI is going away for Arc Fault.

As usual, they are slightly higher. https://ask-the-electrician.co...0-12-afci-arc-fault/

The long term issue is that meeting code is a moving target, and the longer a home owner waits, the more extensive the rewire and costs.

Perhaps, but are you aware of the current supply chain debacle and the overheated real estate market. Prices for everything are through the roof, assuming of course you can 1) find a contractor at all, and 2) source the materials needed. Even if the lady who owns the house had the coin and was open to re-wire, now would most assuredly be one of the worst times to do it.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:

quote:

Originally posted by yanici:
Sometimes, and more times in older homes, the outlet box is too small to accommodate the larger GFCI receptacle. It just won't fit.

Yep, that is usually the case. However, HD sells a shallow mount Leviton GFCI that gets good reviews.

quote:

A GFCI circuit breaker in the panel can do the same as the above paragraph and you won't need a GFCI receptacle at all because the breaker will provide the GFCI protection that the GFCI receptacle would have otherwise provided.

That's what I'm thinking is the better solution, again, assuming I can find breakers that will work in her old box.

To those suggesting a complete re-wire, though that might be the 'best' solution, she who owns the house doesn't have anywhere close to the coin currently to contract that job. I'm simply trying to help her out where I can.

There are GFCI breakers for almost every panel out there. If you post a picture I can direct you to the right part.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
There are GFCI breakers for almost every panel out there. If you post a picture I can direct you to the right part.

I don't have a pic of the panel or breakers right now (should have taken a couple when I was there last week). I'll see if I can get a couple this week.

quote:

Originally posted by Tirod:
There's another issue - GFCI is going away for Arc Fault.

That's not accurate. AFCI: Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter. GFCI: Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter.

They do not serve the same purposes. An AFCI attempts to detect arcing in a circuit, which will almost inevitably result in a hot spot, which can start a fire. A GFCI detects current going to ground, which can often indicate an electrocution hazard.

My last two GFCI breakers were actually GFCI/AFCI breakers.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by Tirod:
There's another issue - GFCI is going away for Arc Fault.

That's not accurate. AFCI: Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter. GFCI: Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter.

They do not serve the same purposes. An AFCI attempts to detect arcing in a circuit, which will almost inevitably result in a hot spot, which can start a fire. A GFCI detects current going to ground, which can often indicate an electrocution hazard.

My last two GFCI breakers were actually GFCI/AFCI breakers.

Once current code is more widely adopted all circuits that aren't dedicated for appliances will be protected by combo AFCI/GFCI. It's already the case where I live. Probably in the near future even appliances and HVAC may end up with GFCI protection.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
There are GFCI breakers for almost every panel out there. If you post a picture I can direct you to the right part.

I'll be shocked() if you post one for a Zinsco.

Its an amazing thing I think about electrical parts. I needed GFCI breakers to upgrade for a panel in my house installed in 1956 and out of production from 1958. Took a couple of weeks but the correct and approved ones arrived without any real fuss.
I'm still amazed.

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
There are GFCI breakers for almost every panel out there. If you post a picture I can direct you to the right part.

I'll be shocked() if you post one for a Zinsco.

I've not seen one in a while, refurb/tested used are the only ones I know of, but there are two breaker brokers I could check with. Connecticut Electric makes after market ones, but a quick Google search didn't return anything for GFIs from them.

You can actually buy brand new ITE/Bulldog/Pushmatic, FPE, and Zinsco breakers now. They are obviously not OEM, but they are UL listed/tested.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
You can actually buy brand new ITE/Bulldog/Pushmatic, FPE, and Zinsco breakers now. They are obviously not OEM, but they are UL listed/tested.

Really!? I have a property, a triplex, that has three Pushmatic panels. I was going to switch them out for new panels, but its good to know that I can get new breakers if necessary in the meantime. Especially if the city makes a huge fuss over the permit requirements. I suppose that's not something that you get down at your local electrical supply. Is there a particular distributor that I should look to?

Pushmatic has never had fire or failure to trip issues that I've came across. Their biggest safety issue in my mind is the viewing window for on/off/trip (not sure if there is even a trip flag). Either way for most users you can't be sure that the circuit is on/off without tester.

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:

Really!? I have a property, a triplex, that has three Pushmatic panels. I was going to switch them out for new panels, but its good to know that I can get new breakers if necessary in the meantime. Especially if the city makes a huge fuss over the permit requirements. I suppose that's not something that you get down at your local electrical supply. Is there a particular distributor that I should look to?

Home Depot, Menards or electrical supply house...

There has been after market for them for many, many years now.

Most of the ones I see are by Connecticut Electric and are gray in color.
I still have some 120/240 original breakers from used panels... even some of the 120v tandems.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
Pushmatic has never had fire or failure to trip issues that I've came across. Their biggest safety issue in my mind is ...snip

Pretty sure it has to due with the fact they screw on to a live buss bar (some of their panels don't have a main breaker).

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:

I'll be shocked() if you post one for a Zinsco.

I'd be shocked if an electrician would touch a Zinsco due to liability.

Rather than start yet another thread, I figured I'd put this here:

I've been slowly working on replacing my old two-prong receptacles around my house with GFCI's in order to make them safer with the kiddos and also give me the 3-prong configuration for when I have to plug something in with 3 prongs like a laptop power supply.

I did my dining room and actually found that this old Romex they used had a (thinner, 16 gauge it looks like) ground wire in the box and where I could I hooked up the ground wire. When using the plug in GFCI tester I have with the button, the receptacle "pops" and goes off and the reset button in the receptacle brings it back on.

I just completed another room that had NO ground wires, just white wire to the silver terminal and black wire to the brass terminal. Green ground screw was just tightened down and not used. When I got everything installed and plugged in my tester, I get a weird reading like the two yellow lights come up on as "Correct" but one is dim and the other is bright. When I press the test button on the tester, it will not "pop" the GCFI and instead I get a yellow and red "Hot/Neutral Reversed". When I press the test button on the actual receptacle it does pop off and the reset button brings it back.

I just wanted to confirm that this behavior by the plug in tester is NORMAL for when there is no ground wire connected on the GFCI? I think this is correct but Googling it seems to give me several confusing answers.

Just trying to make sure they are wired correctly and safe. They are Leviton 15A GFCI's and show a small green light in the lower right corner when on.

This is the tester:




Thanks!

Add me to the "crowd" that believes that there should be a complete rewire. I'd be stunned if it's not currently on an old fuse box.
It it's original wiring it has lived its useful life. Replace it before she burns the place down.