China now launching/recovering aircraft from its own CATOBAR aircraft carrier

September 23, 2025, 09:47 AM

That really does look like it was made by AI to me.

September 23, 2025, 09:54 AM

Rawny

quote:
Originally posted by kkina:
The Chinese word for aircraft carrier is "Sky Mother"?

That caption is in Japanese, but it was abbreviated. The official term for both Chinese and Japanese is "航空母艦". Roughly translates to "Aviation Mother Ship" If the middle two characters are isolated and taken literally, it becomes "Sky Mother".

September 23, 2025, 10:00 AM

gearhounds

Everything I’ve heard about the new carrier, much like the Chinese economy, their building quality, their self aggrandizing projects at home is not stellar. And like others, I’ll wait until they’re doing launches and recoveries in heavy open seas in the dark before drawing any lasting conclusions. The Chinese like to march and posture; that’s all I see at the moment.

September 23, 2025, 01:44 PM

corsair

quote:
Originally posted by Sig2340:
Only a few dozen problems with the design, such as it cannot perform simultaneous launch and recovery using both of the foredeck catapults (port cat sticks into the run out area of the AFD).

It's a curious design as this ship layout only has 3 catapults, and the bow cats are really long, as you pointed out cat-2 interferes with the waist recovery area. The last US carrier with less than 4 cats was Midway and she operated just 3, and ultimately 2 in her last years. Will be interesting to see what kind of launch-rate they can maintain as I don't believe any of their 3 carriers have ever gone to sea with a full air wing and conducted a full-spectrum of operations.

quote:
Originally posted by lyman:
was that actual recorded footage or AI?

some looked a bit fake

PLAN are pretty anal about appearances lending to an odd 'too clean' look to their ships, whereas ships that actually go to sea and operate have a certain amount of...'character' to them. Also, I don't believe they've operated a full air wing on any of their carriers thus all these PR videos and images released show a very spacious flight deck. I had a Navy vet friend of mind point out a curious observation, he noticed PLAN ships don't have a lot of visible lifesaving & DC gear.

September 23, 2025, 03:51 PM

Rey HRH

quote:
Originally posted by 1s1k:
I have no idea why people keep underestimating the Chinese. Where do you think all their brightest people go to school. Sure some stay in the U.S. but not like it used to be. They can become millionaires in China now.

They're smart and they can also steal IP.

I think the OP missed the main message of the video. First, I would hope they've been able to launch and recover planes with their very first aircraft carrier unless they were planning on doing kamikaze runs.

Second, I see they still had to manually attach the planes to the catapult system prior to launch.

The big message I think they want to sent is they have they own E-2 Hawkeye which gives our side Airborne Early Warning, command and control, and battle management. I don't know if I'm right if I remember that the fire systems on board the fighter planes can be controlled directly by the electronics systems on the AEW.

I also don't know how much of that Chinese Hawkeye is just for show and actually no-go.

September 23, 2025, 05:23 PM

Lefty Sig

quote:
Originally posted by 1s1k:
I have no idea why people keep underestimating the Chinese. Where do you think all their brightest people go to school. Sure some stay in the U.S. but not like it used to be. They can become millionaires in China now.

They invited tons of auto manufacturers to China with the promise of cheap labor. The CEO’s saw big profits which brings massive bonuses so they couldn’t resist. Once China got caught up on how to build and manufacture by massively shortening the learning curve they booted most of them out with a big thank you. Now within 5 years they have surpassed everyone in the world with EV’s and have learned an immeasurable amount about manufacturing in general. You may not like EV’s but the rest of the world is on board and even in the U.S. they are gaining market share every year.

Without Trump putting tariffs in place they would have destroyed our entire automotive sector in a lot shorter timeframe than most people could imagine. It’s not 1980 anymore.

First, U.S., European, Japanese, and Korean auto manufacturers set up shop in China to get access to the Chinese market because their tariffs and structural impediments to imports effectively double the cost of imported vehicles. If you want to sell in China at a price people will pay, you have to build in China. It wasn't "cheap labor". High end cars like Ferrari, Rolls, Lamborghini can sell at imported prices because they are status cars and the rich will pay.

Second, these are all 50/50 joint ventures with a Chinese company, so profits are split and the non-Chinese side gets half. It's more about increasing your global footprint to mitigate risk, get an incremental profit increase, and to prevent the locals from dominating the Chinese market and then exporting to your home country.

My company has JV's in China, and despite good sales volume equivalent to US/Europe, they contribute much lower profits overall. None of the majors have been "kicked out". COVID resulted in many expats leaving and going back to their home countries, and leaving it up to the locals to manage things.

China didn't really learn EV's from U.S. and Euro companies, the Chinese government heavily subsidized everything so that China would be a leader in EV's. They overcapacitized and overbuilt and now there is a glut of unsold EV's and they are dumping them anywhere they can. The companies that build the production lines are seeing a sharp dropoff in business now. The shift to EV's was overhyped and now that western consumers are pushing back by not buying them, our manufacturers are moving back to ICE.

China? Not sure what they will do as all these new EV companies don't have ICE to fall back on. Such is central planning, China bet the farm on EV's and for a while there the western governments are all in on making the transition, which would have benefitted China immensely. Imagine that?

But THE PEOPLE said no, and finally Trump called bullshit on the climate alarmists.

China has improved a lot since my first time there in 2011. But they have a massive population bomb that is starting to burst, young people don't want to have kids, there aren't enough jobs, and lots of layoffs recently.

As for their aircraft carriers they run on conventional propulsion and can't go more than a few hundred miles off the coast, and significantly less during actual combat. They cannot project any force, only defend the coast, which could be done by land based aircraft from bases.

So what's the point? IT'S ALL SHOW AND NO GO.

September 23, 2025, 06:07 PM

corsair

quote:
Originally posted by Rey HRH:
The big message I think they want to sent is they have they own E-2 Hawkeye which gives our side Airborne Early Warning, command and control, and battle management. I don't know if I'm right if I remember that the fire systems on board the fighter planes can be controlled directly by the electronics systems on the AEW.

I also don't know how much of that Chinese Hawkeye is just for show and actually no-go.

Big message is:
- Their electromagnetic catapults work.
- Their J-15T and J-35 5th gen fighter is operational from its intended platform
- Their KJ-600 AEW aircraft is also operational and its at least a direct physical copy of a E-2, all the way down to the false tail components. The E-2 is quite formidable in its capabilities, we don't know much about this KJ-600. Wonder if its interior is just as uncomfortable for the crew as it is for a Hawkeye crew.

September 23, 2025, 06:11 PM

FenderBender

Glad to see that while the Russians who built that ship and gave up on it, the Chinese just can't be held back from making a piss poor design work in calm weather without any pressure.

September 23, 2025, 10:11 PM

1s1k

quote:
Originally posted by Lefty Sig:
quote:
Originally posted by 1s1k:
I have no idea why people keep underestimating the Chinese. Where do you think all their brightest people go to school. Sure some stay in the U.S. but not like it used to be. They can become millionaires in China now.

They invited tons of auto manufacturers to China with the promise of cheap labor. The CEO’s saw big profits which brings massive bonuses so they couldn’t resist. Once China got caught up on how to build and manufacture by massively shortening the learning curve they booted most of them out with a big thank you. Now within 5 years they have surpassed everyone in the world with EV’s and have learned an immeasurable amount about manufacturing in general. You may not like EV’s but the rest of the world is on board and even in the U.S. they are gaining market share every year.

Without Trump putting tariffs in place they would have destroyed our entire automotive sector in a lot shorter timeframe than most people could imagine. It’s not 1980 anymore.

First, U.S., European, Japanese, and Korean auto manufacturers set up shop in China to get access to the Chinese market because their tariffs and structural impediments to imports effectively double the cost of imported vehicles. If you want to sell in China at a price people will pay, you have to build in China. It wasn't "cheap labor". High end cars like Ferrari, Rolls, Lamborghini can sell at imported prices because they are status cars and the rich will pay.

Second, these are all 50/50 joint ventures with a Chinese company, so profits are split and the non-Chinese side gets half. It's more about increasing your global footprint to mitigate risk, get an incremental profit increase, and to prevent the locals from dominating the Chinese market and then exporting to your home country.

My company has JV's in China, and despite good sales volume equivalent to US/Europe, they contribute much lower profits overall. None of the majors have been "kicked out". COVID resulted in many expats leaving and going back to their home countries, and leaving it up to the locals to manage things.

China didn't really learn EV's from U.S. and Euro companies, the Chinese government heavily subsidized everything so that China would be a leader in EV's. They overcapacitized and overbuilt and now there is a glut of unsold EV's and they are dumping them anywhere they can. The companies that build the production lines are seeing a sharp dropoff in business now. The shift to EV's was overhyped and now that western consumers are pushing back by not buying them, our manufacturers are moving back to ICE.

China? Not sure what they will do as all these new EV companies don't have ICE to fall back on. Such is central planning, China bet the farm on EV's and for a while there the western governments are all in on making the transition, which would have benefitted China immensely. Imagine that?

But THE PEOPLE said no, and finally Trump called bullshit on the climate alarmists.

China has improved a lot since my first time there in 2011. But they have a massive population bomb that is starting to burst, young people don't want to have kids, there aren't enough jobs, and lots of layoffs recently.

As for their aircraft carriers they run on conventional propulsion and can't go more than a few hundred miles off the coast, and significantly less during actual combat. They cannot project any force, only defend the coast, which could be done by land based aircraft from bases.

So what's the point? IT'S ALL SHOW AND NO GO.

If it’s all show and no go all the manufacturers wouldn’t have gotten together and explained their plight to get Trump to hit them with massive automotive tariffs. Keep believing what you will I’ll trust people that have seen the remarkable change in capabilities from just 5 years ago from in person walk arounds.

September 24, 2025, 12:38 PM

corsair

quote:
Originally posted by FenderBender:
Glad to see that while the Russians who built that ship and gave up on it, the Chinese just can't be held back from making a piss poor design work in calm weather without any pressure.

You're referring to their first carrier which they bought from the Russians and refurbished it.
This is their THIRD carrier, an indigenous design and first full flat-top.

Nothing publicly released if they can do this

September 24, 2025, 02:15 PM

Lefty Sig

quote:
Originally posted by 1s1k:
If it’s all show and no go all the manufacturers wouldn’t have gotten together and explained their plight to get Trump to hit them with massive automotive tariffs. Keep believing what you will I’ll trust people that have seen the remarkable change in capabilities from just 5 years ago from in person walk arounds.

The Chinese Navy and their Aircraft carriers are all show. They cannot project power, they can't function more than a few hundred miles from the shore. Why even think about building a conventionally powered carrier today? But they did...

Chinese EV's are quite good from my experience riding in them. Long term quality and crash worthiness? No idea, but based on experience I would be cautious. Due to government subsidies, they overbuilt and have a ton of EV's they need to dump. Again, central planning - they wanted to be the world leader in a technology that we are now seeing most western consumers do not want to buy. The tariffs are strategic to avoid dumping and to force China to absorb all the costs of overbuilding.

"In person walkarounds?". No I've worked on several new JV startups in China in the past decade and a half. And I work closely with the equipment suppliers that have built all those EV battery and E-motor production lines.

September 24, 2025, 08:15 PM

Bytes

This seems like something you don't learn overnight. Looks "dangerous" as hell to me. God bless the US Military.

September 25, 2025, 05:27 AM

tacfoley

I wish them great lack of success.

We have eighty years on them in this tactic.

One off? One one?

'Gerald Ford says' hold my beer.................

September 25, 2025, 05:27 AM

tacfoley

quote:
Originally posted by Tn226:
Everything they know they learned from watching our Navy - even the colored shirts. When I see them doing sustained night ops in a rainstorm with launch and recovery every 45 seconds I may MAY think they are marginally better than amateurs.

Regardless where they got the technology, the effective use of said technology is a different matter

Nailed it.

September 25, 2025, 07:30 AM

RichardC

Sure, no threat, they'll never advance past this stage.

In the meantime, they are successfully launching two to four rockets into space every week.

"With unknown payloads."

Surely, Shirley, all beneficent, all for the good of all mankind.

September 25, 2025, 08:17 AM

reloader-1

Seems none of you learned the lesson from WWII and Japan.

“Those planes can’t fly straight” etc etc.

Other countries have excellent engineers, planners and soldiers.

China could build 60 carriers a year if they wanted, iterating each one.

September 25, 2025, 09:54 AM

Lefty Sig

China can't even build a machine tool that can make the parts they need for such things.

They still buy machine tools from Japan and Germany or the US.

China can do a lot of things but it's strange they cannot make viable precision machine tools.

September 25, 2025, 04:37 PM

Tailhook 84

quote:
Originally posted by Bytes:
This seems like something you don't learn overnight. Looks "dangerous" as hell to me. God bless the US Military.

Almost 115 years ago Eugene Ely first piloted an airplane from the deck of a ship. 15 months later he turned to Lt. Theodore Ellyson and said "Hold my beer and watch this", then proceeded to land an airplane on a ship. Since then, there's been thousands of lesson's learned about shipboard aviation operations and power projection, and many are written in blood.

A metric shit-tonne of ongoing training, both for pilots and the deck crews, is required to mitigate the plethora of known dangers. This commitment to training requires a lot of money and resources to be successful on a scale that leads to the level of credible power projection that actually means something when foreign policy is being forcefully implemented.

So 115 years after the first shipboard launch, Naval Aviation is still learning new lessons, including about the newer technology that's supposed to make things safer and better (Magic Carpet, for example). That's a lot of years and lessons learned for the PLA Navy to experience, digest, and execute before their new carriers become an effective fighting force.

September 25, 2025, 05:13 PM

Bytes

quote:
Originally posted by Tailhook 84:
So 115 years after the first shipboard launch, Naval Aviation is still learning new lessons, including about the newer technology that's supposed to make things safer and better (Magic Carpet, for example). That's a lot of years and lessons learned for the PLA Navy to experience, digest, and execute before their new carriers become an effective fighting force.

Thank you for that post. I need to re-read your Magic Carpet link a few times to digest it. Carrier launch and landing technology is amazing. Oh, that whole flight and deck crew coordination is pretty amazing too.

September 25, 2025, 10:59 PM

Rightwire

That looked amazing like US Navy carrier ops, right down to the aircraft. Something doesn't feel right unless they built an exact copy and copied all flight ops.

I recall an old friend who had served as an officer on a US Carrier once told me that if we gave any country, a fully functional, stocked and ready to sail Nuclear Carrier, with every instruction manual and video.... it would take them a decade to be able to put her to sea and other 5 years to be able to launch and recover aircraft. Ops have manuals but everything is handed down from crewman to crewman as the experienced move up and new come on board he said.