quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
I have tried to help several people in my life that have had these types of problems. The advice I was given turned out to be true.

Unless the person wants help, really wants it, nothing you can do will make much difference.

Unfortunate but Absolutely 100% TRUE!

Unless your sister WANTS to crawl out of the bottle, she wont. It's a sad, downward spiral.

As others have said, start with a family intervention. If she is unwilling to voluntarily address the problem, and she is endangering the children get Child Protective Services involved. Having a social worker up her ass and having to follow their guidelines and appear before a family judge May be the ticket. If it’s bad enough, they (CPS) will remove the children. Sounds like her husband, the enabler, could use a little govt. sponsored guidance too.

Like others, I had an alcoholic father. My mom left him when I was six when things turned physical. I spent my formative years begging for scraps of a relationship from him during Weekend visits. He’d pick me up after midnight shift at Kroger’s. Once mom left he’d drag me inside to get his 8am case of Stoh’s and I’d have to hand him beers while He drove us home. He usually could down five in the fifteen or so minute drive. I’d watch tv while he drank and whored until about Saturday afternoon when I’d call my mom to come get me. Sometimes he’d call on Monday when he realized I was gone. Sometimes it was weeks.

He’s a big part of why I chose law enforcement. Probably why I led the department for years in DUI arrests too.

Good luck to you and your sisters kids.

I don't know a single person who got help regarding such things until they themselves wanted to as bad or more badly than anyone else around them, and even then, it took some a few trips to rehab or detox or whatever else. Until then, it's rough to watch. Nailing jello to walls, pushing water uphill, all that.

Sorry and good luck. Wish I had more encouraging words, but such addictions have such a grip on some.

RESPONSE

I live 200 miles away; we’ve tried the intervention bit. It’s all for not if her husband won’t play too.

At this point I can only do so much. Long ago I’ve accepted that I cannot be responsible for her welfare. She is suicidal, had been for years. I believe in my heart that I will someday be posting a “my sister killed herself” post here.

Tonight I am sending a letter to the family, we are a very close group of aunts/uncles nephews and nieces.

Some of this they know, some they just suspect, but I am not going to be the sole carrier of this burden. I am not going to continue to own a secret that’s really no secret, and one that I was never asked to keep.

quote:

Unfortunate but Absolutely 100% TRUE!

Unless your sister WANTS to crawl out of the bottle, she wont. It's a sad, downward spiral.

^^^^^^^^^^
I respect your opinion, but have worked in the field for over 40 years. There are high bottom alcoholics who quit and get into treatment before losing everything. AA folks will tell you that.

Physicians, Dentists and Lawyers are hard to treat. Big egos and difficult. The success rate of sobriety for doctors in state monitored programs is over 95 percent. They typically go for 90 days of inpatient care, followed by FIVE years of followup. That is in addition to mandtory AA meetings three times per week, meetings with a psychologist weekly and trips to see the Licensing Board. One slip up and you lose your license or go back to treatment at YOUR expense. The physician must call in daily to see if he is going to be drug tested. If so he has to present that day to perform an OBSERVED urine drug screen.

I have also worked with skid row alcoholics. Surprisingly, some of them do get sober.

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin1069:
My 48 year old sister...

Are you certain that you want to share these things here?

quote:

I live 200 miles away; we’ve tried the intervention bit. It’s all for not if her husband won’t play too.

^^^^^^^^^^^^
I get it. You are fed up. Give Hazelden a call and see what they say. You have nothing to lose. Remember suicide and homicide have some relation to one another. Send the letter tomorrow.

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin1069:
RESPONSE

I live 200 miles away; we’ve tried the intervention bit. It’s all for not if her husband won’t play too.

At this point I can only do so much. Long ago I’ve accepted that I cannot be responsible for her welfare. She is suicidal, had been for years. I believe in my heart that I will someday be posting a “my sister killed herself” post here.

Tonight I am sending a letter to the family, we are a very close group of aunts/uncles nephews and nieces.

Some of this they know, some they just suspect, but I am not going to be the sole carrier of this burden. I am not going to continue to own a secret that’s really no secret, and one that I was never asked to keep.

I hope with enough pressure you can get her the help she needs, and she accepts it's time for change. It's probably not going to change a thing, but you can't say you haven't tried.

Best of luck to your sister, the whole family, and especially the kids.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin1069:
My 48 year old sister...

Are you certain that you want to share these things here?

No one on the forum knows her and members who know my screen name will likely never come in contact with her.

I came to vent a bit, and have gotten what I need from it. Very much do I appreciate you giving me the space for that.

I am 100% cool if you’d like to delete or lock this thread, Para.

Here's a true story, condensed a bit to save space:

You've heard of Eric Clapton? Sure, who hasn't? Probably the most successful guitar player of the past 50-60 years (18 Grammy awards, the only three-time Rock-n-Roll HOF inductee, 21 studio albums, 26 singles, 18 compilations, 14 live albums and six soundtrack albums as a solo artist and scores (86) of collaborations on records with other artists.

Clapton kicked the heroin habit (with help) in 1973-74. But that only unleashed his unbridled alcoholism, which went unabated for years (he once had to perform a concert playing on his back because he was too drunk to stand up). Despite entries from the rich and famous, friends, family and loved ones, he continued on. He had money, he had enablers, and he had fame. But nothing could stop him from drinking.

Until he stopped himself.

Why am I telling this story? First, Clapton tells it himself, in vivid detail, in his 2007 autobiography. Like countless others before and after, Clapton long knew he had a drinking problem, but it wasn't until HE realized he had to do something about it, no help could be given. Fortunately for him (and us, who love music, and his music in particular), he came to that moment of clarity THAT IS NECESSARY FOR ALL ALCOHOLICS WHO GET SOBER. In other words, until he was ready, no one else could help him.

There was no shortage of money, resources or people who would have helped Clapton if they could have. But they couldn't.

You can't help your sister, either. You can pray for her. YOU can attend al-anon (for yourself, not for her). But as the common knowledge says, she's going to have to hit her own bottom. You can't even make that happen sooner.

Good luck to you.

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin1069:

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin1069:
My 48 year old sister...

Are you certain that you want to share these things here?

No one on the forum knows her and members who know my screen name will likely never come in contact with her.

I came to vent a bit, and have gotten what I need from it. Very much do I appreciate you giving me the space for that.

I am 100% cool if you’d like to delete or lock this thread, Para.

I went through similar, a little while ago, really hard to keep it bottled in, you don't want to tell your coworker, neighbors, best friend, etc. because it's embarrassing. It was therapeutic for me to get it off my chest here without outing the person to my friends.

Unless she wants to get help, there is absolutely nothing you can do that will keep her from drinking.

Two things, from a person who has "been there and done that":
Bottom is when the next thing you're about to lose is more valuable than the alcohol. Think about what it might be, for her. Every person's bottom is different. Some never get there and end up dead.

Recovery is voluntary. From minute one, day one. You cannot force a person to engage a sobriety and recovery program. Not even a court order will work. They have to want it, and show willingness. See: bottom.

As mentioned earlier, Hazelden is in your backyard and they are a wonderful organization with decades of experience and success. Highly recommended.

If you'd like to talk offline, Ronin, my email address is in my profile. I work in the recovery field.

- Update -

It was a bad night at their house.

Husband drove her to a rehab clinic for long term stay.

Fingers crossed.

Hopefully, this episode was what it took to make the turn, Ronin.
Try to not have expectations of her completing a long-term program, Ronin. Just be glad for each day she remains in the program, one at a time.
Pretty soon, the days add up.

I’m sorry you’re going through this ronin. Be there, as much as you can from the distance, make sure the family gets help, as others said al-anon, I went there, and as others said, it’s 110% up to her. Hopefully the place her husband took her to will help get her on track. I’ve seen it work, I’ll pray for all of you. Take it easy

But was she willing? I don’t think she can be compelled to stay if she doesn’t want to.

I’m very sad for your situation. Be supportive to everyone as best you can be. She will feel betrayed, the kids may feel abandoned, the husband may just be angry and sad.

A family member of mine stayed at a few rehabs, and eventually figured out a way to get kicked out of them. They also learned some nasty new habits from fellow residents on the way. My heart goes out to you and your family. Stay strong. You will survive this, but there will be a reset on your relationship with her. Cherish your good memories and try to build new positive ones with her.
She needs support now more than ever, but at the same time you have to protect yourself. The kids are most vulnerable. It’s heartbreaking. Always remember, the addiction is talking to her in the background.

Good luck Ronin. I will send prayers.

My ex was an alcoholic,you eventually find out that no matter how nice,compassionate and understanding you are that your neither a doctor nor a psychiatrist and that it will also eat you up mentally because you just can't help. The person needs an extended stay in a rehab clinic. Her surrounding family needs to be on the same page,no waffling on the rehab and it's still a 50/50 shot to make it.

I hope the treatment/rehab is successful, but don't wait to see if it is.

It is important to understand that neither you nor her husband can really do very much to help your sister.

Your brother-in-law and his children are innocent passengers on a train that is derailing and may well become a tragic, destructive a train wreck. They didn't cause it, it isn't their fault, they couldn't possibly have done ANYTHING to prevent it, and I particularly mean the husband here, and they can't stop it. Nevertheless, they ARE going to be injured by it.

This is very hard for you because it is your sister here. It is very unlikely that your brother-in-law is at fault in ANY way. He is, almost certainly, completely unprepared and poorly equipped for the situation he finds himself in. Most people have no idea how to deal with addiction. He's doing the best he can with the tools he has, so help him get better tools.

Encourage the husband to get help for himself and his children. That must be his top priority, NOT his wife, your sister. Al Anon is a "companion" organization to AA and can be helpful for the family members of alcoholics. They often have meetings in the same place and at the same time as AA meetings. The husband and children should seriously consider therapy from a therapist who understands addiction issues. Again, NOT for the wife/mother, but for themselves. There's nothing they can do for the wife/mother, your sister. Even if the rehab is successful, it is likely that therapy will be essential for the family and children's well being. Don't let your brother-in-law put it off because she went to rehab and he thinks everything is going to be OK now. It isn't EVER going to be OK. Rehab is an early step in a recovery process, and probably a recovery struggle, that will last the rest of your sister's life. Sorry to have to put it that bluntly.

This may be really hard to hear, because its your sister, but your brother-in-law also needs to consult a lawyer. Physical violence against him or the children requires a response, and an attorney can provide advice as to what can be done in MN and the local jurisdiction in which they reside. He should NOT rely on police for this advice. The lawyer can also advise as to how to document events to protect himself and the kids. Should the situation continue or deteriorate after rehab, be aware that it is almost impossible to force somebody into addiction or mental health treatment against their will, even if there is an extensive, documented history of family violence and criminal behavior, especially if it is the woman/wife who is the problem. An attorney experienced in family matters like divorce can provide valuable advice. And no, that doesn't mean immediately filing for divorce, but your brother-in-law needs to know that divorce is a possible, perhaps likely, outcome, whether he wants it or not. He needs to be prepared for the sake of those children. The lawyer can also provide information as to protecting the family financially from a possible divorce or the destructive actions of his addict wife. Yes, its your sister, but your brother-in-law and the children are innocent parties in this and need help. Hopefully, it doesn't get this bad, but you said domestic violence is already an issue and as you said yourself, "hope" alone isn't enough.

How do I know all this stuff? My first wife and I lived in happiness and tranquility for 14 years. Had 2 kids. Alcohol and opiate addiction and serious mental illness (diagnosed bi-polar and psychotic) made the next 10 years a living hell. My story is far too long to tell here in detail. Police at my home many times. Six totaled vehicles. Four hit and runs. Dozens of moving violations. Monthly auto insurance cost exceeding $2500. Assaults against me and the kids. Cops around here don't like to arrest women, so little was done about the domestic abuse. Courts here rarely grant child custody to the husband, even in the face of addiction, mental health problems and criminal behavior, so I had to hang in there for the kids. Treatment programs, rehab and family therapy didn't help my wife. One therapist told me, with my wife sitting next to me, that I was wasting my time and money and to focus instead on protecting myself and the children. Eventually, she left me, shacked up with somebody she met in AA, cleaned out the bank accounts of over $100k and left me with $100k+ in credit card debt to deal with, including some where she forged my signature on the card applications. I could have protected myself better financially, but nobody gave me the advice I'm giving you (that you will hopefully pass along to your brother-in-law). We divorced. She passed away 2 years ago. I can only hope and pray that the circumstances and outcome for your family is much better than my own. I've married again, to a wonderful woman who is unlikely to kill me, at least most days, so all hope is not lost. Hang in there for your sister and her family.