This is a good idea. A lot of Wings also have a solo school, which includes ground school and soloing. That would be a great way to get him going towards becoming a pilot.

quote:

Originally posted by sourdough44:
‘Learning to fly, then do it as a career’? I would forget about the building for now, other than assisting.

The AOPA site has a free ‘Flight Training’ magazine for prospective students, check it out.

You likely have a Civil Air Patrol unit nearby. You won’t learn to fly at a C.A.P. Unit, but it is aviation related, and minimal cost. Yes, units vary in usefulness, research.

Get down to Lakeland, FL next April for Sun & Fun, maybe Oshkosh, WI some July.

Congrats to your son for his interest in flying! It really is an incredibly fun thing to do.

You didn't mention it but was curious if he had interest in/plans to fly military? I only mention it as in my experience as a former flight instructor in the military, students coming in with a lot of civilian flying time had a harder transition to military flying (more "bad habits" to unlearn). Of course that wasn't true for all but it seemed to be for most. {I can only speak to how it was for Navy/Marine students - perhaps other services the large prior experience might be a benefit).

Regardless, good luck to him!

quote:

Originally posted by chuck416:
^^^Sorry, I couldn't get the link to copy & paste. Go to the above website, type in 'Beechcraft' then scroll down to 'Skipper'. Paruse and see if you find something you like. Good luck.

I love Beech- I own an A36. But- looking for a trainer I would only consider a 172 or a Cherokee as the market is so liquid for those planes. The problem in this environment is that pricing has run up for trainer aircraft due to expansion of flight schools.

I do agree with the rent philosophy. Ding up a rental plane before you own a plane. Pencil in $10k and if you come out less than that be happy. $160 per hour for the plane, $50 per hour for the instructor. Pricing may be a little less at smaller airports.

If you want to buy a plane immediately, the slower retract aircraft are unloved at the moment. There’s a lot of value in a piper arrow since flight schools are getting rid of them. J model Mooneys are scarce right now and expensive (I just sold one). Take a look at the early beech debonairs with the io470k engine.

However- for a weekend flyer I would look really hard at a experimental aircraft. The RVs are very liquid and there are a lot of them around that have been semi professionally built.

I took my first flight as a sophomore in high school, in a 1976 (I think) Cessna 150M. My dentist owned it & a Cessna 177 Cardinal.
The 150 was also the plane the majority of my following 26 hours were logged in.

Had to stop in college when it got prohibitively expensive for a broke college student.

Truly miss it & eventually want to get back to finishing it up.

quote:

Originally posted by ECSquirrel:


However- for a weekend flyer I would look really hard at a experimental aircraft. The RVs are very liquid and there are a lot of them around that have been semi professionally built.

The trouble with that is that it is very difficult, especially for inexperienced folks, to accurately evaluate the quality and condition of these homebuilts. A great deal of poor workmanship can be concealed under fancy paint.

Decades ago, I got the idea that I should buy a Varieze. Weeks of pre-internet shopping, trade-a-plane, calls, etc., I found one that seemed adequate in the boonies of Arizona north of Phoenix. I flew over to Phoenix, got a friend to give me a ride over to Scottsdale airport where I left in a rented 152, an adventure all by itself in the summer. When I arrived at this tiny airport, we went into the cafe for a huge iced tea. The Varieze was so pitiful, not only did I decline to test fly in it, I wouldn’t even ride in it to taxi.

You have to really be careful. You are betting your life on it.

I would agree with J

there are a lot of really bad home builts out there, but there are also a lot of very finely constructed ones where the owner/builder took pride in the work

we had two such homebuilts at the airport at Nashua and I declined to work on either of them - in the end the FAA refused to grant it authorization to fly - one was truly a pitiful example

however, I've also seen and worked on a number of homebuilts put together as well as a finely built Mercedes - fit and finish were perfect.

Do It! Get the license and enjoy - never too old or too young. I waited - but fixing that now.

I grew up with my best friend flying in an A36 and V35 - his dad was a flight instructor out of homestead. We both grew up thinking we would build a plane, and both of us ultimately landed on the RV as a "the" choice. But both of us also got busy and beyond lots of right seat hours, glider lessons, and dreaming never got on to the business of getting the pilots certificate.

5 years ago my buddy started his own business and left the corporate rat race...2 years ago he decided that waiting to build to then fly was stupid. So he bought a nice 1969 Cherokee and started taking lessons / got his license. I'm finally doing the same - going to use his plane (with a nice new panel), his excellent instructor and some of my vacation time to get the certificate. In the 2 years since he bought this, we have had fun in the southeast - and both of us thank his dad for impressing in us the most important skills of a pilot - Discipline, prioritization and decision making.

So at 51, I should have my license before end of Spring. Still want to build - a kitfox is probably in my future

quote:

Originally posted by JALLEN:

quote:

Originally posted by ECSquirrel:


However- for a weekend flyer I would look really hard at a experimental aircraft. The RVs are very liquid and there are a lot of them around that have been semi professionally built.

The trouble with that is that it is very difficult, especially for inexperienced folks, to accurately evaluate the quality and condition of these homebuilts. A great deal of poor workmanship can be concealed under fancy paint.

Decades ago, I got the idea that I should buy a Varieze. Weeks of pre-internet shopping, trade-a-plane, calls, etc., I found one that seemed adequate in the boonies of Arizona north of Phoenix. I flew over to Phoenix, got a friend to give me a ride over to Scottsdale airport where I left in a rented 152, an adventure all by itself in the summer. When I arrived at this tiny airport, we went into the cafe for a huge iced tea. The Varieze was so pitiful, not only did I decline to test fly in it, I wouldn’t even ride in it to taxi.

You have to really be careful. You are betting your life on it.

That's the old story- one guy has the experience, the other guy has the money. They make a deal and they swap positions.

I've heard the same stories for people looking at certified aircraft- even dealer represented airplanes.
It could be old pictures, or questionable ethics on the seller, but the history of the airplane regardless of type is always important. For so many aircraft, buyers are looking at 20-50 year old airframes. It's almost the same challenge looking at older certified aircraft with more complex STCs, damage history (documented or undocumented in the logs) and worn out parts.

A lot of people look for a deal when they try to buy an airplane. Good luck- it's possible, but true deals are rare. Hire someone to help find an airplane- there are a number of people out there who have the ability to do that work on behalf of buyers. Don't try to save a few thousand on purchase price- the "cheap" planes on the purchase frequently end up with a lot more $ invested.

The big benefit for experimental aircraft is the lower cost of avionics and data, not to mention the performance of an experimental plane. The purchase price of the plane is just the ticket to the party- the operating cost is the real expense.

Look for an RV that was built from a quick build kit. There is info online about the differences between the kits, but the quick build has a portion of the work done in a factory. You're still trusting your life to the builder, but every little bit helps. Add to that- it's not uncommon to find guys who have built multiple airplanes. It's not as good as a factory built airplane, but it's a step in the right direction.

Yep.

As I moved to more complex airplanes, I began to insist on a thorough prebuy inspection by my inspector. Still there were some aggravating surprises. Sometimes an inadequately documented repair, others, an adequately documented but inadequately executed repair.

You might expect the more sophisticated, finer, the airplane is the fewer problems, but that was not my experience. More things to go wrong. More things to keep from going wrong.

The Piper Mirage was the finest we had, but the Mooney M20C was the most reliable. The Mooney Encore (nee 252) was the best combination, I think.

I've actually been thinking about selling the Ferrari and buying an airplane

it won't be nearly as fast...

I've started looking for a decent late model Cessna 172 or a round dial 182...

quote:

Originally posted by nhtagmember:
I've actually been thinking about selling the Ferrari and buying an airplane

it won't be nearly as fast...

I've started looking for a decent late model Cessna 172 or a round dial 182...

My cruise speed at altitude in level flight exceeds your top speed in the Ferrari...

172s are bid up crazy right now. 182 is a good plane but they burn a lot of fuel. If you have the need for speed check out a Mooney Ovation. Nearly bought an M20R when my wife wanted something with some more room and useful load.

I got bit by the home building bug 20 years ago. I was already a pilot and I thought the RV's were cool so I bought a tail kit and started building.... a year later I was done and I realized that I didn't like building that much, I wanted to FLY! I talked to some buddies and it turns out that the time to build an RV (which is one of the simplest, most complete kits you can buy) is anywhere from 6 months (full time!) to never. I went out and bought an RV6 and have never regretted it. A guy two hangars down from me built an RV7 and it took him about 10 years.
Moral of the story is to decide what you like, building or flying. If it's flying, buy a plane.

On the home building end of things, it depends on your experience, time available, and facilities. If I were home continuously and had the time and a spare hangar, I could bang an RV out in several months. If retired, no problem. That's assuming that you already arrive with all the skills, experience, tools, time, facilities, etc. Therein lies the problem for most.

There are kits available that can go that fast if you're dedicated and ready...but it will take you that long to get a grip on what's involved, let alone get started, in most instances.

Home building used to be a good way to get into an inexpensive, easy to maintain, easy to fly airplane, for not too big an investment. Today a lot of homebuilts cost more than type-certificated airpanes. That is, you can buy a Cherokee or a 172 for half the price of an RV=6, in many cases.

Back to learning to fly, for your son, I assume.

Figure out what gives you the best chance to get to flight training, preferably in the Navy.

If you can, start angling for an Academy appointment. It isn’t easy, and you have to hit a lot of marks, physical, grades, attitudes, etc. Free college, paid while training, they buy the fuel and the maintenance, you are eligible for USAA and the thanks of a grateful nation. Pretty strong package!

quote:

Originally posted by nhtagmember:

I've actually been thinking about selling the Ferrari and buying an airplane

it won't be nearly as fast.

V-Tail normal cruise speed is a bit over 170 kts (195 mph), and it's legal! No worries about speeding tickets.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

quote:

Originally posted by nhtagmember:

I've actually been thinking about selling the Ferrari and buying an airplane

it won't be nearly as fast.

V-Tail normal cruise speed is a bit over 170 kts (195 mph), and it's legal! No worries about speeding tickets.

Add a Turbo to the cowling and get another 30 ktas . Solves the aft CG problem in the V-Tail as well.

Love the WEFT shirt!
(Former WEFT member and Auburn Aviation Management(AM) Alum )

Good luck to you and your son!

As I'm sure you've already learned from talking to folks down there, Auburn has firmed up partnership with a few major carriers, and the Auburn AM Alum community is very tight-knit. Incoming AM students have some amazing opportunities now that weren't as available back 20 years ago. Plus it doesn't hurt the airlines are facing a pilot shortage.

Also, Auburn has an excellent Navy and Air Force ROTC programs. It's something else for your son to consider if he wants to fly for a living.

I'll echo what others have already said - if you want to learn to fly, learn to fly and don't bother trying to build a homebuilt. Build the hours, get the ratings, *then* look at buying a plane.

are you a Turtle?

quote:

Originally posted by nhtagmember:
are you a Turtle?

You bet your sweet ass I am!

quote:

I'll echo what others have already said - if you want to learn to fly, learn to fly and don't bother trying to build a homebuilt. Build the hours, get the ratings, *then* look at buying a plane.

Agreed. Most home builds I see are in hangars / garages (unfinished).