WE built our house in 1993. The two AC units and the hot water heater are original and still working great. We put money in the budget for replacements every year, but so far we have been lucky.

I believe, if it's isn't broke, don't fix it.

We have a high SEER York that has been problematic over the 15 or so years we've had it. They replaced 3 compressors and one entire outside unit within 6 years under the extended warranty. We've also replaced start capacitors at least twice, an air pressure switch, an igniter, and just this week an ECM blower motor to the tune of $1750.00. Seems York is known for stupid prices on parts. Lennox or Trane next time.

quote:

Originally posted by jigray3:
We have a high SEER York that has been problematic over the 15 or so years we've had it. They replaced 3 compressors and one entire outside unit within 6 years under the extended warranty. We've also replaced start capacitors at least twice, an air pressure switch, an igniter, and just this week an ECM blower motor to the tune of $1750.00. Seems York is known for stupid prices on parts. Lennox or Trane next time.

Holy CRAP!

quote:

Originally posted by jigray3:
Lennox or Trane next time.

They'll be just as crappy, if you get the same installer.
Your problems are NOT with York, but with improper sizing and/or installation issues.

Whenever there's that many problems within a few years, it's ALWAYS sizing/installation issues.

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:

quote:

Originally posted by jigray3:
Lennox or Trane next time.

They'll be just as crappy, if you get the same installer.
Your problems are NOT with York, but with improper sizing and/or installation issues.

Whenever there's that many problems within a few years, it's ALWAYS sizing/installation issues.

Forgive the the thread drift, I agree. Seems people generally focus on costs and to a degree are at the mercy of the person executing the install or repair. After the first failure, the "why" must be determined.

That chart ^^^ is brilliant.

We replaced a 25 year old unit that died and was not economically repairable... with a Trane that runs quietly and uses less energy. And its control unit (computer) is excellent. Overall cost was $11K.

Your primary question was WHEN to replace the old unit -- they can go 20-30 years with minor repairs -- but they can also die without warning when they are towards the end of that time span. There is a benefit to picking a good time before it claps out - a cool period, ensuring the right unit is available, etc. And then there are benefits to running a new, modern system in terms of lower energy cost, efficiency, noise reduction, reliability, and warranty coverage.

I put in an Amana 16 seer system a couple years ago when the compressor died on the Trane.

I also added a Nest thermostat.

My cooling bill plummeted by 1/3rd.

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:

quote:

Originally posted by jigray3:
Lennox or Trane next time.

They'll be just as crappy, if you get the same installer.
Your problems are NOT with York, but with improper sizing and/or installation issues.

Whenever there's that many problems within a few years, it's ALWAYS sizing/installation issues.

York flew in their own guys, and they spent an entire day looking at everything. Their opinion was it was sized and installed correctly. While I agree that the installation is vital, the idea that there is no quality difference between manufacturers of HVAC equipment or individual units is nonsense. Why would that be true everywhere else except in the HVAC universe? Doesn’t pass the smell test.

My unit is a Carrier and 14 years old so I’m getting a little worried as well. I do get an annual maintenance call and turns out yesterday was the day for it, all good, until the compressor wouldn’t kick on in the morning. Right away the $$ start ticking in my head and I’m thinking this is gonna be real inconvenient! And I’ve already read of weeks long back ups for parts etc due to a variety of reasons. Tech guy examined the unit and kicked the compressor on manually, good news! Further examination found two freakin’ lizards that had somehow got into the panel area and decided to take a “nap” behind one of the electrical boards, fried themselves and the board.
Guy makes a call and within the hour some associates show up with a new board and all is good again, which is awesome ‘cause this is Florida in the middle of summer.
Anyway, the unit has always worked well and with the yearly maintenance I’ll ride it till it quits for good. I’m encouraged by reading of 20 year old systems on this thread.

Finding the "Super Tech" is the key. Corporate is taking over the repair trades and pushing the "White Collar" solution. Replace everything is easier than diagnosing the problem.

I had everything done last Sept. I bought the most efficient unit I could find. A Bosch 2.0 Series 19SEER variable speed 5 ton inside and out, new lines and breakers and all. I can tell you from experience that you WILL get a better deal when your unit is still working. Mine was 15 yrs old and working fine but not efficient at all. The owner/operator of the company gave me a great deal to let him do it on the day of his choice. I'm in Florida, so waiting for it to stop is just not an option. My bill went down $100 a month!!! The unit is damn near silent, I can control/view stats from my phone. Best decision I've made in a long time. Variable speed works so well that I bought a variable speed pool pump and installed it too. I can run both for twice the time for about 40% savings on the bill.

quote:

Originally posted by SIGfourme:
Finding the "Super Tech" is the key.

This 100%

Super Techs are also a bit OCD about their work and do stuff like this:

Just replace my 4 ton unit with a new American Standard. Basically a Trane with a few more features. Built in the same Trane factory with 99% same components. $11,000~ installed with an added return in an area of the house that didn't have one. The HVAC company offered 60 month no interest payments but I opted to put it on my credit card which gave me cash back and I'll pay it off in full when the bill becomes due. Old unit was a 18 year old Carrier which had a coolant leak and would have been an expensive repair which didn't make sense on such and old system. I'm pretty sure this new unit will outlive me.

An AC system is about $6500-$8000 (and up) in Florida.

I've installed 3 of them in the past 3 years.

Its worth the price (to me) to have a newer, more efficient unit, that breaks down less.

I'm all set now, but I imagine I'll be changing the units about every 10-12 years from now on.

I use Trane high seer units.

quote:

Originally posted by jigray3:
York flew in their own guys, and they spent an entire day looking at everything. Their opinion was it was sized and installed correctly. While I agree that the installation is vital, the idea that there is no quality difference between manufacturers of HVAC equipment or individual units is nonsense. Why would that be true everywhere else except in the HVAC universe? Doesn’t pass the smell test.

Forgive me Excam if I'm speaking out of turn here,I'm just a layman with enough knowledge to be dangerous.

The main reason is that generally the only parts manufacturers make themselves are the condenser and evaporator coils and the metal boxes that contain them. Most failure prone parts are made by other companies. Most base seer units (except Trane and its subsidiaries) run Copeland scroll compressors. Other common failure parts are commodity items: blower and fan motors, capacitors, and contactors sourced from whoever will give the manufacturer a good price.

Some will call my 2010 R-410A Goodman a pile of crap. Its got the same brand Copeland compressor as a Carrier or Lennox. It did have a bad evap coil (which was a well known Goodman problem in that timeframe) that was replaced under warranty 4 years ago.

quote:

Originally posted by dkjbama:

quote:

Originally posted by jigray3:
York flew in their own guys, and they spent an entire day looking at everything. Their opinion was it was sized and installed correctly. While I agree that the installation is vital, the idea that there is no quality difference between manufacturers of HVAC equipment or individual units is nonsense. Why would that be true everywhere else except in the HVAC universe? Doesn’t pass the smell test.

Forgive me Excam if I'm speaking out of turn here,I'm just a layman with enough knowledge to be dangerous.

The main reason is that generally the only parts manufacturers make themselves are the condenser and evaporator coils and the metal boxes that contain them. Most failure prone parts are made by other companies. Most base seer units (except Trane and its subsidiaries) run Copeland scroll compressors. Other common failure parts are commodity items: blower and fan motors, capacitors, and contactors sourced from whoever will give the manufacturer a good price.

Some will call my 2010 R-410A Goodman a pile of crap. Its got the same brand Copeland compressor as a Carrier or Lennox. It did have a bad evap coil (which was a well known Goodman problem in that timeframe) that was replaced under warranty 4 years ago.

Funny you mention Goodman. The solution, as it turned out, was to replace the York outside unit with a Goodman unit of the same capacity. That was 9 years ago. No issues with that part of the system since. The Goodman, reputedly, had a less sophisticated compressor design. Whether the original compressor style was bad, or the system was poorly engineered (I’ve heard both), I can’t say. But the change seems to have made all the difference.

If it's not too much of a drift, what about maintenance for the home HVAC?

Beyond changing the filters, is there anything that should, or can, be done to maintain optimum performance and longevity?

quote:

Originally posted by marksman41:
Beyond changing the filters, is there anything that should, or can, be done to maintain optimum performance and longevity?

During the off-season, which lasts about 2 days here , I turn off the breaker to my compressor, and spray out the coils (spray inside out) to clean the coils up.

They make a "cleaning solution" specifically for this, but I just use water.

Buy a new one when the old one breaks.

quote:

Originally posted by marksman41:
If it's not too much of a drift, what about maintenance for the home HVAC?

Beyond changing the filters, is there anything that should, or can, be done to maintain optimum performance and longevity?

The system should be checked once per year by a professional, a "tune-up" so to speak. The inside coil should be cleaned and the outside condenser should also be cleaned once per year. My Lennox states that only water should be used to clean all this.

A few weeks ago my AC just stopped right in the middle of a nasty high-90's day. I called my HVAC guy and he asked me to check the condensate pump and line and sure enough, that was all gunked up with mineral water deposits, the float got stuck and the system shut off. He reminded me that it too needed to be checked and cleaned once per year and I realized it had been 3 years now since I had him in to do any preventive maintenance and cleaning.

I'm now on his schedule for a yearly visit for all that.