I put the over/under on bread lines at 3 years. Full meltdown at 5 years.

What say you?

https://www.reuters.com/articl...m&utm_source=twitter

SANTIAGO (Reuters) - Chileans poured into the country’s main squares on Sunday night after voters gave a ringing endorsement to a plan to tear up the country’s Pinochet-era constitution in favour of a new charter drafted by citizens.

In Santiago’s Plaza Italia, the focus of the massive and often violent social protests last year which sparked the demand for a new magna carta, fireworks rose above a crowd of tens of thousands of jubilant people singing in unison as the word “rebirth” was beamed onto a tower above.

With more than three quarters of the votes counted, 78.12% of voters had opted for a new charter. Many have expressed hopes that a new text will temper an unabashedly capitalist ethos with guarantees of more equal rights to healthcare, pensions and education.

“This triumph belongs to the people, it’s thanks to everyone’s efforts that we are at this moment of celebration,” Daniel, 37, told Reuters in Santiago’s Plaza Nunoa. “What makes me happiest is the participation of the youth, young people wanting to make changes.”

Chile’s President Sebastian Pinera said if the country had been divided by the protests and debate over whether to approve or reject plans for a new charter, from now on they should unite behind a new text that provided “a home for everyone.”

The centre-right leader, whose popularity ratings plummeted to record lows during the unrest and have remained in the doldrums, spoke to those who wanted to keep the present constitution credited with making Chile one of Latin America’s economic success stories.

Any new draft must incorporate “the legacy of past generations, the will of present generations and the hopes of generations to come,” he said.

He gave a nod to fears that the high expectations placed in a new charter cannot be met, saying: “This referendum is not the end, it is the start of a road we must walk towards a new constitution.”

As votes were counted on live television around the country, spontaneous parties broke out on street corners and in squares around the country. Drivers honked car horns, some as revellers danced on their roofs, and others banged pots and pans. The flag of the country’s indigenous Mapuche people, who will seek greater recognition in the new charter, was ubiquitous.

Four fifths of voters said they wanted the new charter to be drafted by a specially-elected body of citizens - made up of half women and half men - over a mixed convention of lawmakers and citizens, highlighting general mistrust in Chile’s political class.

Members of a 155-seat constitutional convention will be voted in by April 2021 and have up to a year to agree a draft text, with proposals approved by a two-thirds majority.

Among issues likely to be at the fore are recognition of Chile’s Mapuche indigenous population, powers of collective bargaining, water and land rights and privatised systems providing healthcare, education and pensions.

Chileans will then vote again on whether they accept the text or want to revert to the previous constitution.

The National Mining Society (Sonami), which groups the companies in the sector into the world’s largest copper producer, said it hoped for “broad agreement on the principles and norms” that determine the sector’s coexistence with Chilean citizens and that the regulatory certainty that have allowed the sector to flourish would continue.

Not our worry or any reason to intervene in another 3rd world shit hole.

Ask again after our 2020 election is settled.

If.the GDC's cheat their way to power, we can see who gets to Venezuela first, Chile or the USA.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: RichardC,

quote:

Originally posted by spunk639:
Not our worry or any reason to intervene in another 3rd world shit hole.

I certainly wasn't calling for any US intervention - didn't mean to imply that at all if I somehow came across that way.

quote:

Originally posted by spunk639:
Not our worry or any reason to intervene in another 3rd world shit hole.

To clarify, Chile is far from a shit hole. It’s very modern. I’ve been following my Chilean friends’ social media. My impression is that conservatives are cautiously optimistic but are concerned about massive social restructuring.

TBD.

quote:

Originally posted by spunk639:
Not our worry or any reason to intervene in another 3rd world shit hole.

Not that it doesn't have its fair share of poverty, but "3rd world shit hole" definitely does NOT describe Chile. My work takes me to Santiago for a few weeks every Fall and I can say for a fact that Santiago is more like a cleaner, more expensive version of early '90s Seattle. Clean streets, fast WiFi, and more Ferrari's and Lamborghinis driving around than what we see here in Utah. Hardly a shit hole.

They won't become another Venezuela. They WANT to be more like us...they love capitalism and the spoils of success too much to ever go that route.

'Bread and Circuses'....Sounds Great!

quote:

Originally posted by pcshooter:
They won't become another Venezuela. They WANT to be more like us...they love capitalism and the spoils of success too much to ever go that route.

I hope that's the case - it just sounded from the reports that 'the people' are wanting to give more power to unions, healthcare as a right, etc. Certain recipes for disastrous economic effects.

I’m afraid Chile may be in for a run of “bad luck”, Heinlein style.

I don’t know, but I really love their powder.

Way too early to say how this will turn out.
The constitution this will replace is nothing like ours.
Theirs was from just a few decades ago (1980), written under the authority of then ruler Augusto Pinochet, a brutal military dictator.
They will now have two years to write a new one, to be approved by voters.

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:
Way too early to say how this will turn out.
The constitution this will replace is nothing like ours.
Theirs was from just a few decades ago (1980), written under the authority of then ruler Augusto Pinochet, a brutal military dictator.
They will now have two years to write a new one, to be approved by voters.

If they want to be like us, maybe it won't be that bad in the end.

quote:

Originally posted by darthfuster:
I don’t know, but I really love their powder.

It could be said that a LOT of people in the US like powders of South American origin.

quote:

Originally posted by 83v45magna:

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:
Way too early to say how this will turn out.
The constitution this will replace is nothing like ours.
Theirs was from just a few decades ago (1980), written under the authority of then ruler Augusto Pinochet, a brutal military dictator.
They will now have two years to write a new one, to be approved by voters.

If they want to be like us, maybe it won't be that bad in the end.

quote:

Originally posted by darthfuster:
I don’t know, but I really love their powder.

It could be said that a LOT of people in the US like powders of South American origin.

Haha right. I was thinking more culinary....

quote:

Originally posted by BamaJeepster:

quote:

Originally posted by pcshooter:
They won't become another Venezuela. They WANT to be more like us...they love capitalism and the spoils of success too much to ever go that route.

I hope that's the case - it just sounded from the reports that 'the people' are wanting to give more power to unions, healthcare as a right, etc. Certain recipes for disastrous economic effects.

In the same vote they also need to approve a new tax system to pay for everything their new constitution endows.

quote:

Originally posted by BamaJeepster:

quote:

Originally posted by spunk639:
Not our worry or any reason to intervene in another 3rd world shit hole.

I certainly wasn't calling for any US intervention - didn't mean to imply that at all if I somehow came across that way.

Last year while net surfing, I read an article that Chilie was one of the leAding economic powers in SA, and the citizens had a better standard of living than most other SA countries.

Things can sure change, in short time.

Not sure what the issues are and the nuance with the current constitution, however with nearly 80% voting in favor, that's a ringing mandate. They've got two years to come up with something, with a few votes in-between to approve/disprove things. Chile is about as modern as it gets in South America, will be interesting to see how things develop, as I doubt they'll auger into the ground, however, Venezuela is a shinning example of elections and consequences.

They should just copy ours rote, change the language to Spanish and clean up the grammar and wording to modern usage.

It's kinda been proven to work pretty well you know. Might as well copy the best.

Santiago sounds like many cities in China. The only places I've seen things look really nice and plenty of exotics on the road also have vast numbers of poor they can pay a small wage to keep everything clean and nicely kept.

Problem is when the wealth gap becomes too big and too many people are "left behind" they fall for the promise of socialism. Is it any surprise that the cities with the most unrest in the US are wealthy cities with tons of tech millionaires that have driven the cost of living sky high? People with "normal" jobs can barely get by. I don't advocate forced government redistribution, but wise leaders avoid the huge disparities that bring revolution, which never helps the poor, but makes the rich become poor (except the well connected ones).

I hear 'shit hole' thrown around a lot by people who have never been to these places.

Chile is not a 'shit hole.'

Pinochet was no benevolent dictator. There was nothing democratic about his constitution, either its origin, or prosecution.

Pinochet was no one to be admired, and those who do admire him stand in company of those who admire the ilk of hitler and mussolini and gaddafi.

We spent a couple weeks in Chile a few years ago. I’d have described some of the areas we saw as California 50 years ago. Agriculture going great guns, people actually hustling and working to make thing happen. At that time, Santiago seemed like a nice modern city. I hope they figure it out and continue moving their country forward.

As others have mentioned, it isn’t for us to solve it for them, they have to figure it out on their own. I hope they do. My impression was that they were a bunch of good, hard working, friendly people. I wish them continued success.