I believe our founders to be people with integrity, intelligence, education and foresight.

They crafted a government that should have been reasonable and long lasting but for the corruption of tyrants. This despite the checks and balances and the BoR.

My belief is that despite their best efforts, they knew that the government would some day topple; tree of liberty needs to be unavoidably shaken upon occassion.

What I don't see is evidence of how a stronger, better society and government emerges from the ashes. Surely they must have planned for this as well? Or is it left to the holder at the time (ie - us and now)?

I don’t see how they could have a plan. Their job is to set up the best system possible and allowing humanity to govern itself. If this whole thing fails it’s not because the Founding principles were wrong it’s because humanity is weak

quote:

Originally posted by darthfuster:
I don’t see how they could have a plan. Their job is to set up the best system possible and allowing humanity to govern itself. If this whole thing fails it’s not because the Founding principles were wrong it’s because humanity is weak

I would go with corrupt rather than weak.

Hope springs eternal.

I personally think we are on a collision course. I think that two or more "countries" will be borne from the fruits of our great nation, and each will bear a different "political" fruit for its people. The ideology is so wide within a certain political belief that even those within a party do not see eye to eye, and politics has become a bloodsport, and it has become personal.

If that is the way it ends, so be it, but I hope that we come to learn from our past, improve on what came before, and continue to be a land of opportunity.

The founding fathers called,

They said that their plan worked fine,just fine
And
The new plan that you should have implemented in 1948
should be
Carrying us until
2028

The third plan should be drafted by
2026.

Some (paraphrased) quotes from our Founding Fathers:

1.) The tree of Liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants from time to time
2.) We've devised a system of government that is suitable to a Christian people and only a Christian people.
3.) The price of freedom is constant vigilance.

The people are not as vigilant as they used to be.

4.) Those who would surrender freedom for security will end up with neither.

The founding fathers could not have imagined the system lasting this long. They figured there would be a revolution every few generations.

Thunderdome

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyklos

I expect some studied classic political theory like this - among many others

“A lady asked Dr. (Benjamin) Franklin Well Doctor what have we got a republic or a monarchy? A republic, replied the Doctor, if you can keep it.”

They did an extraordinary job, all things considered. But our Constitution, government, and people are far from perfect. They did the best they could, I'm sure.

But you cannot, ever, engineer-out stupidity or malice, and many humans are and always have been and likely always will be some kind of stupid or malicious.

We're complex animals. Hairless apes. We're lucky beyond belief that things work as well as they do and life is as relatively peaceful as it is. Hard truths, IMO.

Also, nothing lasts forever. None of this will last-last. It will evolve and change, maybe many times, after we're gone, or at least I hope it doesn't happen sooner.

Humans have been fighting each other over the same shit, some dumb and some not, since the beginning. It appears to be as much our nature as anything else.

Unfortunately.

Most don't have a plan for after. But they had the amendment process. Too bad we decide to circumvented that system.

quote:

Originally posted by Kenpoist:
Most don't have a plan for after. But they had the amendment process. Too bad we decide to circumvented that system.

The amendment process was the "plan".

quote:

Originally posted by Scurvy:
They figured there would be a revolution every few generations.

That's generous. They expected regular revolutions to keep the thing running clean. The first one was 2 years after the first congress sat and I don't think any of em were all that shocked by the schedule.