Classical Conversations - Home School Resources

I was listening to the Shawn Ryan Show (SRS #188 Leigh & Robert Bortins - Why Parents Are Ditching Public Schools for Homeschooling) the other day and he had the folks from Classical Conversations on to discuss home schooling. To make it short, this IS the resource that anyone entertaining the idea of home schooling your kids needs to check out.

I have three kids, 22, 20, and 16. We made the WRONG decision to send our kids to STEM school, which is public, but not the same as the home school district that we live in. Both my wife and I regret ever sending our kids to public school. For the record, I am an engineer and my wife a former school teacher who works for a university now. She quit about three years ago after nearly 15 years of teaching. If the kids weren't a problem, it was the administration, if not them the parents. No one was ever held accountable for anything and everything was always the teachers fault.

Let me tell you friends, I am hard core conservative socially and fiscally, period end of discussion. Our schools are under communist control and ideology if you realize it or not. LGBTQ crap is everywhere and the straight "normal" kid is the minority. Things have shifted so far LEFT it's time to flush the toilet.

If you think you cannot afford to home school, you are sorely mistaken! It is about priorities. You don't need the big fancy home, the automobile with all the bells and whistles, the latest cell phone, Gucci handbags. You get 20 years with your kids and they are gone. Trust me on this! That time goes by so fast, you blink and you will miss it. You can't get time back as much as you may wish, hope, and pray, it is gone.

I don't recall who said it, but: "If you give your kids to Caesar, don't be shocked if they come back as Romans".

I was home educated in the '80s and received the best education one could imagine and can only imagine how far it has progressed since.

If I had kids, they most definitely would be taught at home.

It used to be that homeschoolers were mainly Christian. Now people are so fed up with the public schools that others are starting to see the benefits. It really is the best option for 99% of people but it does take some work. Anyone can do it now with the resources available.

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Originally posted by jcsabolt2:
If you think you cannot afford to home school, you are sorely mistaken!

I don't think cost is the issue for most, but rather time and ability.

I'm curious what your experiences with your children are that have caused you to come to your realization at this stage in their lives?

Here's how it worked for us:

After two months of public school kindergarten with our first born 14 years ago, my wife and I came to the conclusion that public school wasn't for us:

1. At the open house, all the kids' names were on the outside of the classroom door and I couldn't pronounce well over half of them because of the cutesy spellings. I'm an asshole and have no time for parents that do that.
2. Also at the open house, one parent introduced her daughter to the teacher, "This is Tru (I remembered the spelling from the names on the door), and she doesn't know her ABCs." Again, I'm an asshole, but I only said this in my head, "What do you expect if you can't spell?"
3. At the meet the teacher night, out of 22 students, 5 had parents that showed up. By the comments she made, we could tell this frustrated and disappointed her.
4. The teacher went through all the math and English she planned to do for the year and all I could think was my son already knows all of that, what are you going to do for him?
5. My son came home singing to the tune of Frere Jacques: "Be proactive, be proactive; work and play, work and play..."
6. I called the district and the recorded message from the superintendent said, "At XYZ County Public Schools, our collective goal is to ensure your child becomes a productive worker in today's society."

Number 6 was the final straw, and our kids didn't set foot in public school again until high school. Even then, the high school isn't part of the County Public Schools, rather it's a charter school, part of the local community college, and focused on academics.

We thought about home schooling, but decided we don't have the ability. I actually start being a substitute teacher when my oldest was in the 4th or 5th grade. I sub for kindergarten through 12th grades, all subjects and I don't believe I was wrong about my assessment of my abilities 14 years ago. I can do it for a day or a week, but long term is not my forte.

The public school system could be fixed.

It's only a matter of involvement, and unfortunately people aren't involved as much as they should be. That's an "us" problem, not a "school" problem.

I cannot and will not defend public schools. My son did an independent studies program where he meet with an advisor once a week but was otherwise on his own. He is now 26, graduated with honors from college and holds down a respectable job.

The problem I have with home schooling is that too many parents are incapable of providing an education to their children. We know people that home schooled their kids, they “graduated” early and when they went to college, their basic learning was so behind they could not keep up. Parents need to be up to the task in order for home schooling to work.

I’ve heard people say that, but do you have any experience of it? All of the home schooled kids I know are vastly ahead of grade level.

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Originally posted by a1abdj:
The public school system could be fixed.

It's only a matter of involvement, and unfortunately people aren't involved as much as they should be. That's an "us" problem, not a "school" problem.

How? How are schools the one thing the state could do well? I’m not trying to be argumentative.

MAYBE if districts were very small and very independent, such that the local parents/voters had complete control?

And the elected officials were well compensated, given the work load - say about $400/hr? And had actual control?

quote:

Originally posted by SigLaw:
I cannot and will not defend public schools. My son did an independent studies program where he meet with an advisor once a week but was otherwise on his own. He is now 26, graduated with honors from college and holds down a respectable job.

The problem I have with home schooling is that too many parents are incapable of providing an education to their children. We know people that home schooled their kids, they “graduated” early and when they went to college, their basic learning was so behind they could not keep up. Parents need to be up to the task in order for home schooling to work.

There are so many resources available now, the parents do not need to do the teaching. The problems is with parents who do not discipline their children. There needs to be discipline enforced so the kids do the work.

I know many home schooling families and cannot think of one that was behind when starting college. Right now one young man just started community college and is going into the nursing program and he has had zero problems. He scored very high on the SAT as did another young man in my church.

The parents just need to be able to hold to a schedule and plan some. It is not hard and anyone can do it. I am sure there are some exceptions with lazy parents but I have not seen it in the last 20 years around home schooling families.

Public educators are almost always against it since they see it as a threat to their livelihood.

Edited to add, I know young (in their 20’s) teachers in the public school system who after a couple years of teaching went from pro public to pro home schooling. After seeing first hand and having their own children refuse to put them into public school.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
The public school system could be fixed.

It's only a matter of involvement, and unfortunately people aren't involved as much as they should be. That's an "us" problem, not a "school" problem.

The public school system is hopelessly politicized, bloated, and wasteful. As a cop, I dread every time I have to deal with them, not because of the problem itself but because I know I'm gonna get calls from at least four or five different administrators, and the prosecutor's office, and ultimately they're all going to be more concerned about what their press releases are going to say than actually addressing whatever the problem is.

There's a lack of academic accountability because the schools won't fail kids or hold them back for poor grades. There are rampant disciplinary problems to the point where the classroom environment is detrimental to the kids who are actually trying to learn. Even in our conservative community the curriculum contains things that I disagree with on religious and philosophical grounds.

Even if all of those issues could be resolved to my satisfaction, it's still a mass-production situation as you're trying to accommodate the needs of thousands of individual kids within a single overarching system. My kids are getting a better, more individually tailored education with more accountability at home than they could ever get in that environment.

It's also a sore subject with me right now as I just paid my property tax bill last week and saw that over 80% of it is going to the public schools that my kids don't even attend .

quote:

Originally posted by Aglifter:
I’ve heard people say that, but do you have any experience of it? All of the home schooled kids I know are vastly ahead of grade level.

Through substitute teaching I’ve met quite a few home schooled kids in various grades. Most were because parents decided home schooling wasn’t working in their case for whatever reason. For example, the kids were home schooled through the 8th grade and the parents didn’t believe they could keep it up through high school, or more social opportunities in school environment, or the parents felt graduating from a regular high school would benefit their child’s college opportunities, etc.

I would agree that they were/are ahead of most of the other students academically. The parents I’ve met have been motivated, dedicated, and driven. Quite a few had teaching experience. It would be naive to think every or even most parents would be capable.

Fixing public schools sounds great. Then there’s the state and federal involvement in funding you are up against. Then there’s that your ideas on how things should be are the minority in many if not most public schools. And then you have the time aspect. People care most about schools right up to the point their kids graduate. It’s an uphill battle and God bless those He has given the fortitude to take that challenge.

We picked the path of least resistance and sent our kids to a Christian school. We were as involved as we could be and I think had a positive influence for all students. That’s the reason I still sub when my kids don’t go there anymore. I don’t believe I can change the public schools, but I can certainly make a difference for the 160 or so kids that go to this school.

It doesn't take above average intelligence from parents to successfully homeschool children... perhaps it takes above average motivation and involvement, but that says more about society than anything else. The parents that can't/won't engage in their children's education when it is happening at a public school will continue to fail if they tried to go to homeschool.

In most cases the line that it is unaffordable is just silly... it can literally cost next to nothing. Plenty of free curriculum out there, and that is even before searching the second-hand market. The cases where an argument can be made that it can't be afforded is one of income... either a single parent home or a home that 'requires' two incomes. As someone said earlier, that often comes down to priorities (though I'm sure not always).

My wife and I have a 12 year old, 9 year old, and 7 year old. We've homeschooled 100% their entire lives. We were forced into it by vaccine requirements here in California but there are dozens of reasons not to let my kids into the education camps known as public schools... no thanks, I love my kids too much for that.

Is it easy? Nope. Would it be easier to drop our kids off at a governmental babysitter for 7 hours every day? Sure would. Parenting is about what is easy for me, though.

My wife went to college to be a teacher, got her credential and all that, and then never actually taught on her own because she became pregnant with our first. That was the plan.... she figured she'd go back to teaching someday when the kids got older, like school aged. However, along the way she came to a realization: She loves to teach and what could be more important than teaching her own children? Despite having homeschooled for quite a while we still catch her (we being her and me together) where he "indoctrination" from her teaching credential program education come out... such as a desire to meet some arbitrary "standard".

The public school system is a complete and utter failure if you assume the goal is anything other than to feed the socialist machine. Once you realize that is the goal you realize it has done quite well.

I sometimes get quite a bit blunter and more passionate when I discuss the education system, but I'll temper my comments here.

Retired educator here.

+1 on Classical Conversations. A group of home school moms meet weekly at our church for group learning experiences.

Friends of ours grandkids are home schooled: the 15 year old has started an LLC to sell products she makes and has a serious chicken egg marketing business. The 16 year old raises Turkeys, is an assistant instructor at a licensed facility, works at a small engine repair shop. For both of these kids they are enrolled in a formal home schooling program and doing well.

Our grandchildren are all homeschooled and follow a modified Trivium educational model. Both the 7 and 5 year old are learning Latin and discovering the English language connections; they really enjoy it. Recently, the older grandkids were up at our place with grandma walking through the woods, recording what they found, journaling about it and then taking samples home to examine with a microscope. I’ve taken the kids out tracking using a book to help us identify wildlife; identified animal bones; and, started to learn together how to take photographs.

A parent or grandparent pursuing a thoughtful exploration of the doing of home school should find plenty of resources and direct support in most communities.

Of course the parents are (and should be) the final decision makers on their child’s education; public, private, or home school. Perhaps I’m just being a negative Nancy but it seems to me that the road towards reforming k-12 public education has long been washed out.

Silent

Dad sent me to military school for 2nd grade in 1956. Page was about 30 miles away from home. Monday through Friday I was alone in a crowd of strangers. My brother was there too in 4th grade but I never saw him once through the week as the age groups were totally separate. I recall learning to cuss and fight more than schooling. There was a sgt discipline councilor who knuckle rapped you on the head for next to nothing. In the chow hall he used a spoon. Social learning there for a 7 year old was totally wrong. Dad was a great man. But it was a mistake to send me to that prison.

A fascinating and unexpected thread, from folks we don't usually hear from, who are very passionate about this issue.
We have two granddaughters. Our daughter has decided she wants them both to be enrolled in a Mandarin immersion charter school. Dad drives the older one 40 minutes each way every day, and the homework is long and hard.
My wife and I, like the OP, are very conservative, very concerned about California public schools' plans to indoctrinate kids to hate themselves, their race, their family, their faith, and their country.
But so far there's no evidence of this (older granddaughter is just in 1st grade). Most of the parents are ethnically Chinese, and we see no evidence that the parents would put up with that kind of indoctrination. And yes, my daughter speaks and reads Mandarin so she would know.
FWIW, the school is in a conservative area northeast of Sacramento--Tom McClintock is the congressman.
But eternal vigilance is the price of not getting your kids brainwashed.
Congratulations to those who are building the homeschool movement.

Schooling is always a local decision. I went to public school in suburban Chicago and managed to be admitted to a highly regarded college. New Trier outside of Chicago is public and highly regarded. Some impressive people went there. Of course Cook County schools sucked.
My kids went to private school through sixth grade and then public school. The private schools were not any better and they could not have partipated in athletics. Both went on to compete in college athetics. Home schooling would not have been possible for us.

We finally went private this year. I don’t feel comfortable homeschooling, and our kid was in a Spanish immersion program prior to grade 6. Started pulling lower scores, and we know he’s not dumb..come to find out, the teachers were so overwhelmed by the troublemakers that my kid just melted into the woodwork-because he wasn’t a problem. He was agreeable and friendly, etc so they were letting him slide with C’s while they dealt with actual terrors (I’m lighting this whole building on fire up kind of shit).
But the latest news we were hearing about the public schools really turned the tide against. Just too much indoctrination, and schools not informing parents of situations that arise that involve their very own child..so we are counting our pennies and going to a Catholic school. Note: we are not Catholic.
It seems to be going well. 3.7 GPA and homework every night (did I mention he never had any homework prior to this new school?).

quote:

Note: we are not Catholic.
It seems to be going well. 3.7 GPA and homework every night (did I mention he never had any homework prior to this new school?).

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Any clerics doing the teaching? It used to be all nuns,brothers and priests. Being non Catholic should not be a problem unless he refuses to go to Mass etc.

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Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:

quote:

Note: we are not Catholic.
It seems to be going well. 3.7 GPA and homework every night (did I mention he never had any homework prior to this new school?).

^^^^^^^^^^^
Any clerics doing the teaching? It used to be all nuns,brothers and priests. Being non Catholic should not be a problem unless he refuses to go to Mass etc.

Well, he refused to go to confession yesterday, and it seemed to work out OK for the moment. He did not inform me well enough in advance to the event, but came home the night before with a bunch of information about how he was supposed to confess his sins.
Considering we are Lutheran and our relationship is directly with God without an intervening priest, it became a bit of a problem for me. I told him to let them know if he was uncomfortable with having to confess something he wanted to talk to God directly about. And I reminded him it was his choice.
He shared that with his religion teacher, and did not have to go to confession, but it does sound like she’s kind of hard-core about converting him.
I’ve always told him to take in the information, bring it home to me and we would talk about it together. I want him to keep an open mind- for all I know he’ll become a Buddhist, or, like my sis, an agnostic.
To my knowledge, none of his teachers are nuns, brothers or priests. He does have mass every Tuesday and I encourage him to keep an open mind for that. Bring home the information and we’ll talk about it, but Catholicism isn’t that far from us, so I’m not too worried about that. I have no problem with him learning about religion. I just want him to understand. There are so many different options to choose from. Other than that, this school is pretty much in line with our thoughts on how education should be.

Lay teachers can be worse than priests and nuns about these things. He needs to find a teacher that will run interference for him. Catholics are now taught to respect other religions. That was not the case in the 1950s. It should work out. Of course he will be required to take religion class. Lutherans were always viewed as "Catholic light".