quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:
I view the "gun show loophole" thing as it relates to FTF transactions as nothing more than the left's push to get all legal gun purchases on paper (4473). Once that's complete, then their incrementalism moves forward to a push for gun registration, which is much easier when 'all' legal purchases must occur via 4473. Of course this does nothing to address all illegal gun purchases, which coincidentally, happens to be the real problem. But why let that get in the way of their agenda.

+1

This is why, per Amy, firearms owners hear "i want to take all your guns"...

I actually know Amy from back in the day when I used to hang out at the Comedy Cellar and Olive Tree in NYC a lot. She seems like a totally different person now.

How do you feel about “let-em in Sammy?”

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:

quote:

Originally posted by muddle_mann:

quote:

Originally posted by flashguy:
A clarification: not ALL gun purchases involve a 4473, although the grabbers would like to see that to be true. FTF sales between individuals not involving a licensed dealer don't have a 4473 OR a background check--a situation that the anti's want to shut down. (Can you say "universal background check"?) And, of course, black market sales on the street don't go through those formalities, either. IMO, since the greatest number of gun crimes/shootings take place in urban ghettos, I don't think the guns involved in those would have been subject to background checks or 4473s on the most recent transfers of ownership.

flashguy

Tis true. the great "gunshow loophole" (IE legal person to person sales in states that allow it) but mine does not...

I view the "gun show loophole" thing as it relates to FTF transactions as nothing more than the left's push to get all legal gun purchases on paper (4473). Once that's complete, then their incrementalism moves forward to a push for gun registration, which is much easier when 'all' legal purchases must occur via 4473. Of course this does nothing to address all illegal gun purchases, which coincidentally, happens to be the real problem. But why let that get in the way of their agenda.

while I don't disagree that the agenda is registration,

folks (well most folks) don't realize that that 4473 sits in a file cabinet or box at the dealers for 20yrs or until they end the business or license,

there is no clearing house of electronic data for each gun sold each day, by serial number,

NICS and your state agency if you are a POC state (Virginia is) will know you bought a Rifle, Revolver,Pistol, Shotgun or Other, ,that is it, no serial number info is transmitted


only time the ATF or anyone asks for one is if a crime was committed, and the firearm was purchased at that FFL... and that is usually thru a trace

btw, traces are dependent on someone actually knowing what the firearm is,

so a Smith M&P bought last year will likely be traced easily, (S&W>distributor>dealer>individual) but an older surplus rifle, or that vintage Colt revolver that gramps had in his nightstand for 50yrs, may not be traceable

ditto when it is sold by the original owner,
there is no legal obligation that I am aware of for the original buyer to retain any documentation when they sell it,

so that trail may go cold,

quote:

Originally posted by muddle_mann:
From the Federal Form 4473 that ALL GUN PURCHASES must fill out.

Sorry, but both sides must be honest about this debate, and that statement is NOT true. Only purchases from a licensed dealer (aka FFL), with a few exceptions, require the completion of the ATF Form 4473. In most states private party sales between residents of the same state do not require the use of a dealer, and the completion of the 4473.

https://www.atf.gov/questions-...-when-two-unlicensed

While I'm not a supporter of "universal background checks," it is simply untrue to say that all "firearms purchasers" must complete a 4473, as firearms are sold in private party transactions frequently without the involvement of a licensed dealer, or the use of a 4473.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:
Let me take a stab at this....she's a moron.

Ding ding winner!

I'm sorry but I'm not taking ANY advice from this bubble-head whose shtick includes talking about drinking too much and passing out at a party and waking up with "what she hopes was just dried ice cream all over her face".

someone , at some point in time will wonder what went wrong , in America,
eventually they will dissect her brain and the doctor will say
"Well there's your problem , right there"

quote:

olks (well most folks) don't realize that that 4473 sits in a file cabinet or box at the dealers for 20yrs or until they end the business or license,

It would probably be pretty easy for them to change that if they decided to.

quote:

Originally posted by bendable:
someone , at some point in time will wonder what went wrong , in America,
eventually they will dissect her brain and the doctor will say
"Well there's your problem , right there"

They'd hide their findings, we can't handle the truth.

quote:

Originally posted by DMF:

quote:

Originally posted by muddle_mann:
From the Federal Form 4473 that ALL GUN PURCHASES must fill out.

Sorry, but both sides must be honest about this debate, and that statement is NOT true. Only purchases from a licensed dealer (aka FFL), with a few exceptions, require the completion of the ATF Form 4473. In most states private party sales between residents of the same state do not require the use of a dealer, and the completion of the 4473.

https://www.atf.gov/questions-...-when-two-unlicensed

While I'm not a supporter of "universal background checks," it is simply untrue to say that all "firearms purchasers" must complete a 4473, as firearms are sold in private party transactions frequently without the involvement of a licensed dealer, or the use of a 4473.

Tis true tis true. Stated that for simplicity's sake. Also in my state no private transfers w/o 4473 (on "regulated" firearms). Ironically they banned all by HBAR and piston ARs on Oct 1, 2013 but moved these rifles from "regulated" to "non regulated" meaning buying an evil AR from another state member w/o official paperwork. Makes perfect "sense" right...?