I have a Honeywell thermostat with wifi, similar to this one:



The app lets me change settings remotely. When I am in the house, my phone and the thermostat are connected to the same wifi network. Why does a command to change temperature have to travel from my phone to the Honeywell mothership in the cloud and back to the thermostat? They are both on the same network, why can't the app communicate directly with the thermostat instead of being dependent on a round trip through the internet?

One or both of these reasons.

Creating that method was less complicated for them, one software package to create and update as needed.

Like most thing nowadays, they want to gather any information they can for marketing reasons (advertised as product improvements) for themselves and possibly to sell to others.

Yeah, annoying. We have a similar thermostat of a different brand. I love the convenience when we travel to check that the house isn't below freezing. But it sure seems ridiculous to go out onto the internet when in the house on the same network.

I suspect Big Data is at play.

I have Honeywell cameras. My alarm guy told me that communication arrangement is for security reasons.
Devices that communicate directly with your home network are easier to hack.

I would assume that hold true for all Honeywell devices.

I asked the original question because this morning, I was not able to change the temperature from the app. My phone, the thermostat, and my WiFi network were all fine. The Honeywell mothership in the cloud was not reachable, so the command to set temperature did not reach the thermostat, which was less than fifty feet away, with the MESH router about halfway along that path.

Honeywell wants their servers to be in the middle. One, for the data collected. Two, in preparation for someday selling that thermostat as a subscription service. Three, it also does offer them a backdoor to override your settings at government orders.

As noted, data collection - you are the product.

My Traeger has the same capability and i do not use it.

This is interesting since I was looking at electronic deadbolts this morning. I usually use Schlage. But search results offered Yale. Yale only has wifi enabled locks (don't want, don't trust).

I wonder if these Yale locks rely on the cloud or just local lan. It would be terrible if they relied on cloud.

I'll stick w/ Schlage unless something better comes up.

Not to be a wet blanket but remember that 'smart' devices, wifi thermostats, etc., are typically outside your firewall and an easy penetration point for someone looking to access your network.

quote:

Originally posted by Rightwire:
Not to be a wet blanket but remember that 'smart' devices, wifi thermostats, etc., are typically outside your firewall and an easy penetration point for someone looking to access your network.

Can you explain more for the non-tech savvy?

If I have a WAN modem connected to a router, my LAN is the devices connected to the router. The 'smart device' connects to the router. The firewall is at the modem (and/or the router?). How is the 'smart device' considered outside the firewall? And how does it allow a penetration point? And finally, what are the risks associated w/ the penetration point - what does it allow someone to do on my LAN (attack and hack into other devices?)?

Here is the technical answer to the OP;
Because it does.

I've had a similar delay with last home and Honeywell, but it does get there eventually, just not instantly.

Always almost instant with Ecobee in another home, but their programming puts the capital R in Retarded.

I despise cloud devices for home automation, meaning I have to make my own or modify purchased ones in most cases.
Built my own thermostat for my shop, its a temp sensor and 1 relay, everything else was 75-100$,I think I spent ~12, and that was overkill,it has humidity & air pressure and plenty of i/o for expansion in the future. I will probably builed a pcb with 110AC control to replace the pump controller at some point
Home assistant & esphome keep everything inside my network, except outside access. I just used it to check on the house while im in Mexico visiting inlaws.

quote:

Originally posted by LS1 GTO:
As noted, data collection - you are the product.

My Traeger has the same capability and i do not use it.

For the Traeger, I think the cloud is to enable you to monitor and control the smoker when you're outside the house. Otherwise, you leave the wifi coverage of your network and you lose the connection to your Traeger.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
This is interesting since I was looking at electronic deadbolts this morning. I usually use Schlage. But search results offered Yale. Yale only has wifi enabled locks (don't want, don't trust).

We've got Emtek. No internet at all on them. They seem reliable and strong. This is the second home we've had them on.

quote:

Originally posted by Rey HRH:

quote:

Originally posted by LS1 GTO:
As noted, data collection - you are the product.

My Traeger has the same capability and i do not use it.

For the Traeger, I think the cloud is to enable you to monitor and control the smoker when you're outside the house. Otherwise, you leave the wifi coverage of your network and you lose the connection to your Traeger.

While your statement is teue, its trivial to have a local-only connection in addition to the server based. Its juat not profitable.

I would imagine because it is setup that way so you can adjust it when you are away from home. I also have a Honeywell smart thermostat.

I also get monthly emails that compare my last month’s usage to the previous year’s month usage and what the temperatures were for both months.

quote:

Originally posted by snidera:

quote:

Originally posted by Rey HRH:

quote:

Originally posted by LS1 GTO:
As noted, data collection - you are the product.

My Traeger has the same capability and i do not use it.

For the Traeger, I think the cloud is to enable you to monitor and control the smoker when you're outside the house. Otherwise, you leave the wifi coverage of your network and you lose the connection to your Traeger.

While your statement is teue, its trivial to have a local-only connection in addition to the server based. Its juat not profitable.

Actually, Traeger does have local-only connection. Do you know how I know this? Because the app has been finicky and I've lost cloud connection in the middle of a cook. Then I have to get close to the probe. Scratch that.

I just realized I was talking about the Meater probes which does offer a local bluetooth connection. That's what I was saying when I've lost cloud server connection. I have to move my phone closer to the probe.

For the Traeger, there is the local-only controls where you're standing by the Traeger. As for a local-only connection not being profitable, that's no surprise. Do you know that in a good number of cases, the base model of a product is produced exactly the same as the deluxe model? And they have to take an extra step to disable the bells and whistles from the product to make it a base model. It's more cost efficient to manufacture the deluxe model and then to disable the deluxe features than to have separate builds of the deluxe and base models or to build all the base models first then add the deluxe features.

It's been going on for a long time and has been made transparent with the Tesla cars where second hand buyers of Tesla cars have to pay extra for the extra options already paid for by the original owners.