Apply elsewhere and find another company where you feel valued. The only folks who will gain in the litigation scenario you have posited would be the attorneys. Even if you were to stumble across emails or unpublished HR procedures in discovery and win, you personally would still lose. Your bosses would likely make your life difficult and be looking for reasons to fire you.

You can certainly consult with an employment attorney in your AO for your own piece of mind, and should, because legal advice from your internet friends is worth what you paid for it.

Why would you fight for a position that you didn't want in the first place?

quote:

Originally posted by James in Denver:
While I expressed shock and dismay at his lack of consideration of me

Shock and dismay, and an accusation to your boss, over something you say you didn't ask for and didn't want. I'd say a bruised ego is a factor here.

Your best course of action, IMO, would have been to take it in stride, say you'd like to also be considered, and lay out your qualifications. Maybe it's not too late for that, but the ladies took the initiative, and you didn't.

I don't mean any of that to sound terribly critical. Just providing honest feedback from my perspective, based on the info provided in the OP.

If one of these women gets the gig it seems likely your job will be to make her look good with your skills & experience. If you don't do that it will reflect on you because she appears to be protected. If you're okay with that, so be it. If not, it seems like it's getting close to time to bounce. I wouldn't want to work in either job if the circumstances are as you described. I also wouldn't waste my time trying to force them into promoting me. That probably wouldn't be the best work environment.

Just the opinion of a guy on the internet, & worth what you paid for it.

I think I'd start looking for a company with a better fit in meeting your long-term career objectives. In the mean time, I'd express my interest in being considered for the PM position. I don't think your employer has any obligation to consider you for the job (unless it breaks some written contract between you and them)...but you'll know where you stand with your boss and other decision makers. If you have another advocate in the company around the same level as your boss it might be good to discuss your concerns, but in a general way without passing judgement on the decision-making progress. Tread carefully.

I think at the end of the day if you show interest, and also prep yourself for being ready to move on, you'll have a good plan of attack. Maybe you do get the interview. Maybe they like you more. And you get the promotion. I know it sounds crazy, but it could happen. At the same time, maybe they don't even let you express the value you bring. Well...that should be a big signal to you.

I wouldn't spend another second worrying about discrimination at this point.

I'd keep my concerns to myself and start looking for a better fit elsewhere.

Merit is no longer valued. Probably been dead 20 years, at least

Email sent to the address in your profile with information on a good employment attorney in Colorado I have used before. Kevin

I'm the OP, sorry for the delay...

So, does it change any "legal" situation if the following occured just about a year ago:

I got a call from HR. I had just ordered TRUMP materials from the Trump website, PRE-Pence!

I happen to have a few extras that I distributed to KNOWN associates at work. I was NOT campaigning, just letting a few people I know had the same views as I did have a few extra do-dads (stickers and the like).

So, I get a call at my desk from HR.

"Yes?"

"I've heard you've been handing out political literature"

"To a few people I know outside of work as well, but yes."

"You cannot do that, you must stop now" (nowhere does it say that in any "policy" manual BTW).

(Not wanting to be labeled a "troublemaker" I say)

"Ok, that's fine. I have something on my laptop as well, my desktop".

"You must remove that"

"Ok."

"Thanks."

30 minutes later, I walk by the actual HR lady who called, she wasn't at her desk...

I look at her desk and see...

... A picture of HER shaking hands with OBAMA...

Yep, I had seen it before, so I knew it was there...

I walk by casually snapping pictures with my phone... still have the pictures...

Does that help my case?

James in Denver

You need to move on. Look inside yourself and determine why you cannot let this go. Resentments will kill you.

Just move on.

quote:

Originally posted by James in Denver:
I'm the OP, sorry for the delay...

So, does it change any "legal" situation if the following occured just about a year ago:

I got a call from HR. I had just ordered TRUMP materials from the Trump website, PRE-Pence!

I happen to have a few extras that I distributed to KNOWN associates at work. I was NOT campaigning, just letting a few people I know had the same views as I did have a few extra do-dads (stickers and the like).

So, I get a call at my desk from HR.

"Yes?"

"I've heard you've been handing out political literature"

"To a few people I know outside of work as well, but yes."

"You cannot do that, you must stop now" (nowhere does it say that in any "policy" manual BTW).

(Not wanting to be labeled a "troublemaker" I say)

"Ok, that's fine. I have something on my laptop as well, my desktop".

"You must remove that"

"Ok."

"Thanks."

30 minutes later, I walk by the actual HR lady who called, she wasn't at her desk...

I look at her desk and see...

... A picture of HER shaking hands with OBAMA...

Yep, I had seen it before, so I knew it was there...

I walk by casually snapping pictures with my phone... still have the pictures...

Does that help my case?

James in Denver

You have a choice to make. Be a martyr and possibly cost your self your job and be labeled a troublemaker where ever you go from here....or..... Just stop getting aggravated, look for a new place to work without anyone knowing and leave for greener pastures.

So yes, I'm already looking.

The original post was more about finding if I really had any case. I was pretty sure I didn't for numerous reasons, but I just wanted to confirm.

And, besides that, life is too short.

Today, I contacted my previous employer and they might have a position for me back there (was with them for 5 years before moving to my current company in the same industry for 7 years).

I've also been contemplating a lateral move inside the company. I have an excellent relationship with other managers, one specific manager, but I've built a stellar reputation for getting things done and done right, and more importantly, listening and understanding the business!

So, as most said, I'm moving on, either laterally inside the company (maybe...) or outside back to my former employer (more likely).

While the story about the election was actually true, I was only using it for emphasis. I'm not overly upset, but it does go to show that at this company, as with all companies, there are politics, office politics or real politics.

Thanks to those who responded via email and thanks to those who had actual legal advice or experience. I figured I was SOL, but even if I had something.... life is just to short to worry about that stuff.

James in Denver

quote:

Originally posted by James in Denver:
I'm the OP, sorry for the delay...

So, does it change any "legal" situation if the following occured just about a year ago:

I got a call from HR. I had just ordered TRUMP materials from the Trump website, PRE-Pence!

I happen to have a few extras that I distributed to KNOWN associates at work. I was NOT campaigning, just letting a few people I know had the same views as I did have a few extra do-dads (stickers and the like).

So, I get a call at my desk from HR.

"Yes?"

"I've heard you've been handing out political literature"

"To a few people I know outside of work as well, but yes."

"You cannot do that, you must stop now" (nowhere does it say that in any "policy" manual BTW).

(Not wanting to be labeled a "troublemaker" I say)

"Ok, that's fine. I have something on my laptop as well, my desktop".

"You must remove that"

"Ok."

"Thanks."

30 minutes later, I walk by the actual HR lady who called, she wasn't at her desk...

I look at her desk and see...

... A picture of HER shaking hands with OBAMA...

Yep, I had seen it before, so I knew it was there...

I walk by casually snapping pictures with my phone... still have the pictures...

Does that help my case?

James in Denver

It does not change your case at all. Any relation to gender is either doesn't exist or the relationship is stretched to the breaking point. Objectively looking at the issue, what is more likely, they dont like Trump, don't want campaigning, don't want political disputes, don't want division, don't want employees spending time doing/discussing that instead of working - or they are messing with you because of your gender. There are probably dozens of legitimate non-discriminatory reasons to prohibit what you described. With great respect, you are really reaching to find something to support your feelings that you are being treated differently because you are a man. Given the stretch of logic, one could wonder - and the company lawyer would almost certsinly raise it - that you may have gender bias yourself.

While I am not saying you are not being treated unfairly, the company will say that there is a difference in handing out campaign materials (which you minimize by calling doo dads and trinkets) versus having a photo on the desk. They are right. For a comparison like that to be of any use, the comparators must be similarly situated in all relevant regards so that the difference in treatment is attributable to discrimination. Your conduct is not even remotely similar to having a photo of Obama on the desk. The company can also restrict what you use their computers for without explanation or recourse.

Even if you had a Trump photo just like hers and they gave you a hard time, then it still would not matter because there is no change to the terms and conditions of employment. The anti-discrimination laws (federal at keast) do not prevent hypocrisy, workplace slights, disputes or dumbassery. They do not prevent hurt feelings. They protect against adverse employment actions like discriminatory terminations, failures to hire and promote, some discipline and the often misunderstood hostile work environment. A plthough there are exceptions, a good rule of thumb is thst if it doesnt cost you money it doesn't count. Employers can make decisions for good reasons, bad reasons or no reasons, as long as they are not for discriminatory reasons. Just because it is not in a policy manual,doesnt mean the employer cannot restrict employee conduct. There is a very frequentlycited opinion that says the courts do not sit as a "super personnel office" to question and second guess employment decisions. An employee's disagreement with the way things are done cannot be pigeon-holed into a discrimination claim. Even overt discrimination can be very difficult to prove absent direct evidenc of bias like discriminatory comments. Even then, without tangible harm beyond hurt feelings, the case never sees a jury.

I truly hope that you find something that will fulfill you. It is easy to say, but try not to let your disatisfaction eat you up. It appears there is some deep rooted resentment, and, regardless of the reason, it sucks to work in an environment like that. I wish you well.

Throughout my entire career I have witnessed countless people get special assignments, details, positions etc. not because they earned it or were the best person for the job but simply because who they were or who they know.

Its no way discrimination just piss poor management.