quote:

Originally posted by 1s1k:
If it’s a restaurant I go to often then they have good service so an 18% “forced” tip wouldn’t even register with me.

Telling someone to fuck off and you’re never going back about it and not thinking you over reacted is crazy talk.

Feel free to read the whole thread if you’d like.

Telling me what essentially equates to a fee for my child to sit in a chair warrants much more than an F-you.

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:

quote:

Originally posted by 1s1k:
If it’s a restaurant I go to often then they have good service so an 18% “forced” tip wouldn’t even register with me.

Telling someone to fuck off and you’re never going back about it and not thinking you over reacted is crazy talk.

Feel free to read the whole thread if you’d like.

Telling me what essentially equates to a fee for my child to sit in a chair warrants much more than an F-you.

Tell me where its rationale to tell people to fuck off every time you disagree with them.


By the way I agree that it’s a dumb move by the restaurant but so is your reaction or more likely over reaction. Feel free to tell me to fuck off as well I have thick skin.

this thread is getting weird so let me contribute
OP likes the food and says he's a fair tipper so I don't see it being about the money. Must be a "you tell me to sit down and I'll stand right up" kind of thing.

I don't like stupid rules myself but good restaurants are hard to find. My belly says Not a hill to die on.

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:

quote:

Originally posted by Edmond:
Few factors for me.

I wouldn’t have gone to the length to tell them to go fuck themselves. Don’t accomplish much by doing that. Only bad things can come out of that.

Sir, fair but let me clarify, they said, you can put your little one (4 years old) in a high chair or pay the fee for a larger table.

To which I responded, in a normal tone, “that’s fucked up, I’m not paying a fee to have my children sit comfortably to eat”. I didn’t get loud or insult them directly, I just told them that’s messed up and asked them to apply some logic and common sense to the situation.

They refused so I let them know they’ll never get any more of my money.

Yep, I'd be out too. That's a stupid policy to start with, and the application is even worse. Maybe I'm biased because I have four kids, so we're a family of six, but if your establishment is going to penalize me for the size of my family then we'll find someplace that won't.

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:
A family of four can eat for 18% less in theory than a family of 5, sounds like a stupid ass business decision for a family restaurant.

Only if the family of four doesn’t leave a tip.

You said you normally leave 20%, the restaurant you like and I’m assuming thought had good service in the past was going to automatically add 18% thus saving you 2%, but you took issue with that.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:
A family of four can eat for 18% less in theory than a family of 5, sounds like a stupid ass business decision for a family restaurant.

Only if the family of four doesn’t leave a tip.

You said you normally leave 20%, the restaurant you like and I’m assuming thought had good service in the past was going to automatically add 18% thus saving you 2%, but you took issue with that.

Call me crazy, wouldn’t be the first in this thread. But, something about the manner of it all supersedes the math.

Belonged to a motorcycle group that on saturdays and sundays would go on rides to resturant detinations to eat.. Once went to a New up scale resturant on the edge of a large lake.. only 2nd week opened.. group of 10 people... They flatly refused to do seperate checks.. As a group we started to walkout but we stayed... Food was very good.. Service was execelent... But we payed the bill by pooling moneys and gave excess left overs plus some to the waitress ... Told owners goodbye because we would not be coming back and would be spreading the word about single tickets per table no exceptions.. ........ I Personaly never went back and the motorcycle group IIRC never went back either. ...................... drill sgt.

^^^If you all sat at one table I can understand the policy, especially if they were also busy at the same time. Individual wait staff are seldom only responsible for one table at a time, having done that work long ago myself. Keeping track of ten separate tabs at one setting on top of all the other tables a waiter is responsible for, especially if it's also crowded with other customers...that's the proverbial storm for mistakes to happen. Who was tab #1 again? The fellow who wanted another beer...what tab # was that? And who was going to pay for the garlic wings appetizers? Don't EVEN TELL ME that they want it split TEN WAYS...

These kinds of errors in customer service reflects even more poorly on the business than not doing the separate tabs themselves, because it potentially highlights what may seem to be apparent incompetence, when it should be a case of simply overloading one person with way too much information to keep straight. So in this case, I certainly sympathize with the restaurant.

We have 4 children. I don’t see the fairness in you stating that the automatic gratuity is a fee, unless you were planning on not tipping at all, or tipping less than 18%.

If it was standard practice to argue enough that they’d allow deviations, or set an age limit that the servers would then themselves have to enforce or determine, it wouldn’t make sense to have the rule anyway.

I don’t like the automatic tip rules either, and usually tell them that I would have tipped more, but you’re overreacting a good deal on this one IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:
Recent poor experience with a firearms-related accessories producer led me to dump all my stuff owned by them and now I’ll look elsewhere for future business. Sucks.

Local Pho place said we can squeeze the 5th member of our party, our youngest on the side, or sit at a larger table for 18% added fee. Told em go fuck themselves and we’ll never be back.

I know I can have attitude but I don’t think I overreacted in either situation. Sometimes it feels like everything is going to shit. I can accept that mistakes happen and give a pass once, sometimes twice, but it just feels like customer service is trash now days. And I hate it.

Preaching to the choir, I know.

I'm a little confused. Were you planning on not tipping for service at all? The sign says anything five or more they automatically add an 18% gratuity. You had five people. It sounds like they were willing to forgo the added gratuity if you were willing to squeeze into the smaller table you had. Don't like that idea? Take the bigger table and pay the gratuity and be done with it. You don't have to tip on top of it.

The fact that you had kids at the table doesn't enter into it. The larger table isn't available. The gratuity allows for that fact and also to prevent the server from getting stiffed.

Yeah, I think you overreacted.

Perhaps you don't understand how tips work.

If it's a required 18% gratuity and the tike orders nothing, the math on that comes to (beepboopbopbeep) $0. And you've been "forced" to tip a reasonable amount on the rest of the table.



If I was them, I'd have charged a $10 minimum on each person at the table. Maybe more for the PITA of dealing with kids and pissy patrons. Not really, but sheesh don't go wandering around looking for things to be pissed about; plenty of legit material will make its way to you.

Definite overreaction by the OP, especially with the use of language.

It’s the US, tipping is standard by now (whether we like it or not). He knows the place, frequents it, and therefore it’s unlikely that the service/food would be so bad that he would refuse to tip.

By his own admission he’s a 20% tipper, so the restaurant was actually giving him a discount and offering a larger table.

If you tip 20% on a tab, and I force you to tip 18%… I’m saving you money.

Sometimes the sheer Nancy-ness of this forum is amazing. He didn't tell the waitress to fuck off. Read his post, he said that's a fucked up policy for a family with 3 kids in a conversational tone, his words. Which it is.

I universally despise mandatory gratuities. I am a routinely solid tipper but if the service sucks I absolutely will reflect that in the tip. Saying tipping is an American tradition or whatever is nonsense. I have watched all kinds of "traditions" change and I certainly don't put tipping into the unassailable column.

The math comment above is funny because I have always argued that it is poor math skills that have gotten us to this point. 15% tipping used to be the "standard". Then it inched up to, what? 18-20%? The funny thing about math is that tips get bigger when the bill has gotten bigger. No need to artificially raise the tip percentage on top of an already massively bigger bill than a few short years ago. Math, hmm.

Five people isn't a large party unless you are an introvert. Bad policy loses customers. This is a stupid policy.

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:
Sir, fair but let me clarify, they said, you can put your little one (4 years old) in a high chair or pay the fee for a larger table.

To which I responded, in a normal tone, “that’s fucked up, I’m not paying a fee to have my children sit comfortably to eat”. I didn’t get loud or insult them directly, I just told them that’s messed up and asked them to apply some logic and common sense to the situation.

They refused so I let them know they’ll never get any more of my money.

I wouldn't risk losing a regular over a kids seat. Just not worth that fight.

That's a shame because we have a regular pho place we go to and won't go anywhere else. They're closed on Wednesdays and if we end up going out to lunch on Wednesday and have a taste for pho, we put it off until Thursday or Friday.

The server there has our orders memorized and always gives my wife a free Thai tea to go if she's ordered one already to dine in.

quote:

Originally posted by drill sgt:
They flatly refused to do seperate checks.. As a group we started to walkout but we stayed... Food was very good.. Service was execelent... But we payed the bill by pooling moneys and gave excess left overs plus some to the waitress ... Told owners goodbye because we would not be coming back and would be spreading the word about single tickets per table no exceptions.. ........

That is absolutely ridiculous. I'm sure their order taking system has a way to separate checks.

What did the owners say when you told them you won't be coming back?

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:
And while I can understand using their larger tables is an inconvenience, they were 95% unoccupied. And, the larger tables are just smaller tables joined together. Move one 6 inches over and Viola!

I understand your issue.
If the tables weren't occupied anyway they should have made every effort to accommodate you. That's service.
If they "automatically" add 18% it's no longer voluntary and based on service, so it's not really a tip.

quote:

What did the owners say when you told them you won't be coming back?

They probably told him to fuck off and try the pho place down the road.

I dislike the 18% mandatory tip. Personally, average service gets a 20% tip, better than average service gets a 25% or 30% tip, and worse than average service (waiter/waitress not the kitchen) gets a 10% or 15% tip. The reason I dislike the fixed price tip is most of the time I get below average service which removes the option of reducing the tip unless I want to involve the manager. For example, I dined at a Culinary Institute of America restaurant that every table no matter the size had a fixed tip, and while the food was fantastic the service was leave a penny bad.

On the other hand, I can see why businesses do it as there are some shitty tippers out there. However, I've never seen it for less than a table for 8. Doing it for a family of 5 is abnormal and might explain why the restaurant is 95% empty.

Personally, I now make a conscious effort to avoid eating at a restaurant that is 95% empty as the food turnover is too low. A few years ago, I was hosting a Christmas party in a week so I spent all day Saturday wrapping up projects around the house. I ran out of supplies at dinner time so decided to combine dinner with a trip to Lowe's. My favorite local BBQ joint was 2 blocks out of the way, but there was also a BBQ joint in Lowe's parking lot so I chose it to be more efficient. I was one of two tables on a Saturday night at dinner time. Nothing tasted spoiled, but about 8 hours later I needed a seat belt for my toilet.

This thread is why we deal with poor service, bad restaurant policy, and over tipping culture (mostly).

There is a steady stream of responses that basically are "if you like the restaurant you gotta take their shit". Fuck all of that. They probably need his business more than he needs their phot.

Having a fifth seat at the table for a kid that is bigger than a high chair isn't an unreasonable request. Telling you that your 3rd kid triggers a "service charge" is ludicrous. Telling Otto if he likes the food then he needs to get over it is retarded.

If consumers push back on the bullshit, it will change. Eating out is a discretionary monetary event. I can eat at home cheaper without drama.

Serious question. My answer is ZERO. Name the number of restaurants you have personally been to that called 5 people (2 adults, 3 kids in this case) a LARGE party and mandated a service charge (tip I suppose). I eat out a lot. I eat out all over the country. I have lived all over the country. Large parties and included gratuities (stated as such, not as a service charge) usually start at EIGHT, plus or minus one. Not a medium sized family. That is BS.

Push back. Or take it in the butt cheeks. Those are your choices. I think Otto made the right call, yes even with the curse word.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
more than he needs their phot.

Illuminating.