assuming there isn't a state law, have any of our FFLs remotely sold a firearm to someone in their own state and shipped directly to them?

E.G. you're in Miami and you sell a rifle on gun broker to a ccw holder in Tallahassee, would you process the 4473 and ship to their home?

***EDIT***
This is not a question regarding two private citizens, this is regarding FFL to non-FFL.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: FenderBender,

quote:

Originally posted by FenderBender:
assuming there isn't a state law, have any of our FFLs remotely sold a firearm to someone in their own state and shipped directly to them?

E.G your in Miami and you sell a rifle on gun broker to a ccw holder in Tallahassee, would you process the 4473 and ship to their home?

In Fl the 4473 is nor required and, to the best of my knowledge, you can ship it directly to the receiver.

^^^^ Same here in TX. Have done it before (intrastate non-FFL to non-FFL). But, I do require buyers to provide me a copy of their TX DL. A LTC additionally is a plus but not required.

How are you able to process the 4473 without the person present? There are rules to how and where the 4473's may be done for standard title 1 firearms. I don't think this is legal on the federal level. I have been an FFL for 20 years, although not in Florida. I am unsure of the FL instate rules for non liscense's

quote:

Originally posted by Crockett040:
I don't think this is legal on the federal level.

No 4473 required for intrastate private sale on federal level. State laws vary, however.

Have a read from ATF's site. But don't bet on your IOI knowing this. I'd tread carefully.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/q...pear-person-licensed

quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee:
Have a read from ATF's site. But don't bet on your IOI knowing this. I'd tread carefully.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/q...pear-person-licensed

This seems to confirm the legality of my proposition.

1. same state
2. CCW for NICS check bypass

thanks Rick!

In states where private party firearms sales are legal without a background check, you can mail intrastate without an FFL. It's no different than being at a gunshow or other FTF sale.

If seller is an FFL and the gun is part of his business, as in logged into his A&D book, he can't sell it privately. It has to go with a 4473 and then be logged out of his book.

quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee:
If seller is an FFL and the gun is part of his business, as in logged into his A&D book, he can't sell it privately. It has to go with a 4473 and then be logged out of his book.

This, private sales are not the same as FFL sales.

And I don't want to go down the shipping guns rabbit hole again. But you definitely cannot ship to a non-FFL via USPS. They're dealer-dealer only. UPS and FedEx also don't allow shipping to a non-FFL. But their rules are not laws. USPS's are.

May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?

A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another state. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of their own state or to a licensee in any state.

The U.S. Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms.

Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?

quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee:
And I don't want to go down the shipping guns rabbit hole again. But you definitely cannot ship to a non-FFL via USPS. They're dealer-dealer only. UPS and FedEx also don't allow shipping to a non-FFL. But their rules are not laws. USPS's are.

Um, not exactly. See the post right below yours.

As an FFL we have an option on the 4473 for private sales. I would not want to deal with an IOI asking me why I did not fill out a 4473. Some things are ok to do but are way too much trouble and I’d tell them to mail it themselves. I have enough problems without having ATF problems.

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:

quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee:
And I don't want to go down the shipping guns rabbit hole again. But you definitely cannot ship to a non-FFL via USPS. They're dealer-dealer only. UPS and FedEx also don't allow shipping to a non-FFL. But their rules are not laws. USPS's are.

Um, not exactly. See the post right below yours.

Yes, I know you can ship a long gun via USPS. Good luck finding someone there who knows this. I sold a P226 barrel only here to a SF'er that got lost in the mail, I had insurance on it, USPS denied the claim and sent me a letter threatening to refer me for prosecution for shipping a gun without an FFL to a non-FFL. I was not an FFL at that time, but that's the level of ignorance you're likely to run into within USPS.

^^^^ What does your specific situation have anything to do with your broad statement in your other post, which is incorrect?

Btw, you shipped a barrel. The law is on your side. So, what happened? Did you let the USPS bully you with illegal threat into dropping your claim? If so, that’s ridiculous. Them being ignorant of the law is not a valid defense. They surely would have lost.

Sorry man, I appealed that claim denial twice before they sent me that letter. At that point, I still had to refund the buyer his money and wasn't about to go any farther with those ignorant bozos at USPS and risk my having to get a lawyer.

As for shipping to a non-FFL, sure, long guns are fine ... until you run into the type of USPS employee who sent me that letter. I have run into people at ATF, USPS and TSA who had no idea about the law. I don't have the time or money to fight them on small stuff I can deal with via other means. Hell, one of the reasons I got my FFL was so I'd always be legally covered by shipping guns anyway I wanted to.

I knew it. Fucking assholes bullying the little guys banking on them not fighting back. I personally would have written them back challenging them on their bullshit, and to go ahead with their threat. Yeah, see you in court, and you show me what fucking federal law did I violate.

Sorry, OP, for derailing your thread. I’m bowing out.

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
I knew it. Fucking assholes bullying the little guys banking on them not fighting back. I personally would have written them back challenging them on their bullshit, and to go ahead with their threat. Yeah, see you in court, and you show me what fucking federal law did I violate.

Sorry, OP, for derailing your thread. I’m bowing out.

As my position on private sales consists of "Where's your warrant?!" and "Am I being detained?!" I take no exception to the derailment, carry on Q.