It's DOOOK

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Originally posted by trapper189:

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Originally posted by sig226fan:
Seems original thoughts are as dead as common sense.

RIP.

How many have you had over the course of your life?

I’m not trying to be rude or disrespectful. With over 7 billion people on the planet with God knows how many thoughts per person per day and unprecedented access to global archives of music, literature, history, etc, how many original thoughts are left to be had? How do we distinguish them from thoughts someone else already had?

I could say all of my thoughts are the product or sum total of all sensory perceptions I’ve had since my conception. While the particular combination of those perceptions are unique to me, the causes of those perceptions are not. The sun comes up, the sun goes down. I’m hungry, I’m tired. I go to school and learn from the same books and teachers as everyone else in my class. I read the same forum on the internet as everyone else who reads SIGforum. Can anything I think really be mine?

Well so far I have gotten through 50 years of not stealing other peoples work. Have other people said things much better than I ever will. Most definitely ( and spell much better it seems), but I give credit where credit is due if I think their comments need to be part of whatever I present.

It's easy to do, most people are not speech writers or professional orators. They are not expected to come up with some profound and enlightening speech for a college graduation.

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Well so far I have gotten through 50 years of not stealing other peoples work. Have other people said things much better than I ever will. Most definitely ( and spell much better it seems), but I give credit where credit is due if I think their comments need to be part of whatever I present.

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How often do you have lines from a Harvard 2014 commencement speech in your head? Not too often. This was pure plagerism, nothing else.

Nope, still doesn’t mean much to me. She clearly took the form of the previous speech and changed details. It’s a speech given at a commencement. Who cares? If your boss quotes Knute Rockne during a company wide address without crediting him does it really matter?

If her thesis is plagiarized then take back her degree. This? Who gives a shit and honestly what do you think is an appropriate punishment? (If you say take her degree you are nuts)

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Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:

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Well so far I have gotten through 50 years of not stealing other peoples work. Have other people said things much better than I ever will. Most definitely ( and spell much better it seems), but I give credit where credit is due if I think their comments need to be part of whatever I present.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
How often do you have lines from a Harvard 2014 commencement speech in your head? Not too often. This was pure plagerism, nothing else.

Totally agree and exactly my point. She stole the work of someone else without giving them due credit. Why even try to pull something like this off, as said earlier by Para, et al, "The internet is forever". <--- see, very easy to do.

Speaks volumes about her integrity and how she will perform in the future. She dug herself a deep hole, for such a dumb reason.

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If your boss quotes Knute Rockne during a company wide address without crediting him does it really matter?

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Unless I am playing ball I do not see managment quoting Rockne. He was not really a wordsmith.

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Originally posted by trapper189:
Can anything I think really be mine?

An interesting question about how we know things that I’ve pondered at times.

First, though, is whether we’re referring only to ideas that are not necessarily unprecedented, but that form and develop in our minds without prompting from external sources, or are really totally new and unique to us alone—i.e., no one else has ever thought of them before.
The second is probably extremely rare, although it must obviously happen sometimes.

As a firearms instructor interested in improving my teaching, I have developed many drills and exercises that I didn’t get from other people. That doesn’t mean, though, that no one else ever thought of them as well. An exercise very similar to one I developed and believed was very effective and unusual was described on a police-oriented web site some years later.

Through my examination and use of ballistics solving programs I discovered a couple of facts that I had never seen discussed by anyone else that I developed into simple methods of estimating wind holds and engaging moving targets. The wind hold method, though, was also described by another precision shooting instructor in a book some time after I first described it in my personal writings. His method has a somewhat different basis than mine, but how the two methods are used is the same, and it’s not unusual for different people working on a problem independently to arrive at similar solutions. And is it possibly other shooters have discovered and used the method themselves? Of course, and it may be so obvious to some of them that they never thought it worthy of mentioning to anyone else.
(I’m still waiting, though, to see any discussion of the moving targets method I developed.)

Sometimes ideas that we believe we were the first to think of were in fact picked up and retained by us without our being aware of it. For some time I believed that I had personally coined a term relating to certain firearms. Later, though, I found that it had been in use long before I could have thought of it myself. Because it was so unusual and specific, I had obviously run across it, stored it in memory, and later recalled the term without remembering that I’d gotten it from someone else.

The term “sheep dog” that some law enforcement officers apply to themselves in reference to their role as protectors* of the rest of the (clueless and helpless) populace was evidently popularized to at least a degree in recent years by the psychologist Dave Grossman. The earliest use of the term I’m aware of, though, was in Robert Heinlein’s book Starship Troopers, first published in 1959. Did Grossman read that as a teenager as I did?

Appropriating or using as our own a specific term or phrase without proper attribution is what we consider to be plagiarizing, but when does it stop being that? The term “iron curtain” was commonly used during the Cold War, and is usually attributed to a speech in the US by Winston Churchill. It was, however, used many times significantly before that speech by the Nazi propaganda minister Joseph Goebbels in his diaries—something that few historians seem to be aware of. But was Churchill aware of those entries?

Anyway, as I say, it’s something that I find interesting.

* FWIW, Heinlein used the term as it actually applies to real sheep dogs whose primary purpose is to obey the directives of a controller to herd and control the sheep, not to protect them.

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Originally posted by pedropcola:
Nope, still doesn’t mean much to me. She clearly took the form of the previous speech and changed details. It’s a speech given at a commencement. Who cares? If your boss quotes Knute Rockne during a company wide address without crediting him does it really matter?

If her thesis is plagiarized then take back her degree. This? Who gives a shit and honestly what do you think is an appropriate punishment? (If you say take her degree you are nuts)

Pedropcola, agree it is stupid, and why should it matter? Truthfully it doesn't, but for her it was a big life event and she chose to take the easy way out, and out right stole someone else's work. And now this is out there as long as the internet exists, for anyone to dig up if they are so inclined to look. Employers, future colleges, and just people she may need to associate with will now know what she has done when (in her mind) things counted.

I honestly can't believe or understand why I even wasted some of my preciously few posts on this. I am going back to my hole.

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Originally posted by Cookster:
^^^
Copy that. My apologies.

Likewise.....just seemed to fit.

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Originally posted by sigfreund:

Anyway, as I say, it’s something that I find interesting.

Thank you for the response. I’ve had one idea for sure that I was the first to come up with in the three accounting firms that I worked for. The last firm was the largest firm in Chicago besides the big 6 at the time. It wasn’t anything spectacular. I just looked at two piece of the Internal Revenue Code and figured we could deduct an expense that was not previously deductible. I’m sure other people figured it out at the same time because everyone does it now.

As for as the woman’s speech goes, I’m not excusing her plagiarism. She clearly copied the structure from the other woman’s speech. On the other hand, how original were the ideas in the other woman’s speech? I didn’t go to an Ivy League school, but I suspect comparing them to small countries complete with tax collection authority is hardly unique. It’s a commencement speech. You talk about where the class has been, how they overcame hardships, throw in some jokes, and something about being prepared to embrace the uncertainties of the future, thank the teachers and follow students, good luck everyone! <applause> Everyone forgets what you said after the second beer during the grad party. Except for her, she was lazy and now everyone on the planet knows it.