Switching oil band/type

July 24, 2018, 12:57 PM

quote:
Originally posted by PowerSurge:
quote:
Originally posted by tatortodd:
BTW, Bob is the Oil Guy is the most knowledgeable motor oil forum on the internet, and they can’t come to agreement on SAE 30 vs 10w-30 for small engines. It’s roughly 45% heavy duty SAE 30 vs 45% 10w-30 vs 10% 15w-40 or 15w-50 heavy duty oil.

They can’t come to an agreement on anything on that site. The best thing to do is follow the manufacturers recommendations. Honda and Briggs recommend 10w-30 as a direct replacement for SAE 30 in their small engines.

I wholeheartedly agree with this and Power's previous post. I have a Honda HRT216 and just got gifted a Toro with a B/S motor. I'm rebuilding the Toro and all the oil research for it echo everything Power has posted. Quality brand 30W are hard to find for me too beside the overpriced Honda and B/S label at Home Depot and the cheap off brand at Wallie's World. Castro is excellent. Shell Rotella is good...even better than the Honda and B/S label mower specific oils. I went with Rotella which is 20% cheaper than the Castro Magnatec. I don't think I run mine as hard like a commercial lawn equipment so don't need to waste $$$. I just plan on changing it once a season during my winterizing process. Either mower only uses .5qt max. The gallon will last me a few seasons.

If I run my equipment commercially, I would go to synthetic.

July 24, 2018, 04:44 PM

Fusternc

Ive used Rotella synthetic in my motorcycles, and my atv and have been very happy with the performance and smoother shifts, etc. It would work fantastic in a mower. I use Royal Purple in my chainsaws, pole saw, blower mix, and also in my self propelled mower. Runs very well.

July 24, 2018, 05:19 PM

lyman

when I was much younger, it was common knowledge (ha!!) that if you used one brand of oil, you best stick with it,
never change brands,
supposedly stuff would come loose, sludge move around, etc etc, blow you motor up, blah blah blah

and never use Quaker State, it had sand in it,,

seriously, heard that from many a mechanic

having said that my first car was a vega, never changed the oil in it, only changed a filter, since it burned it up at about 2 quarts or more a tank of gas,

other than additives, what is the difference between a cheap off brand named 30 weight and a 'premium brand"??

likely nothing, since like Gas, it all comes thru the same refineries, just sold off as a commodity and packaged,

FWIW, the shop I take my Tundra , currently uses Pennzoil, (oil, not synth)
they will likely do the changes on the Civic I drive now (factory says 0w-20 oil, or synthetic)
when I had my Cooper, it used whatever BMW/Cooper put in it during service,,

July 24, 2018, 07:57 PM

tatortodd

quote:
Originally posted by lyman:
other than additives, what is the difference between a cheap off brand named 30 weight and a 'premium brand"??

likely nothing, since like Gas, it all comes thru the same refineries, just sold off as a commodity and packaged,

Partially correct, but it's erroneous to say different additives but no difference. In both motor oils and gasoline from brand to brand the additives are definitely different and additization rate is different which corresponds to performance differences.

Gasoline leaving the refinery is fungible, but at the distribution terminals loading rack (i.e. where they load the tanker trucks) is where the difference comes in. A loading rack will have the supermajors', majors', and generic additives (I've seen as many as 6 additive tanks at a loading rack meaning 5 proprietary additives and one generic additive). You can read more about Top Tier gasoline and diesel here, and the deposit control performance difference between ordinary and Top Tier.

Lube oil base stocks also leave the refinery the same, but at the lube plant is where the difference comes in. The assembly line is pretty neat to see in person and I've toured two. Outside, there are tall, skinny lube oil tanks (several weights of dino oil and several weights of synthetic oil) and inside there is an additive area with 55 gallon drums. When they switch oils (they have several grades of their own as well as making oils for the companies that don't have their own lube oil plant), it's a complete shutdown of the factory. They have to swap out all of the bottles, swap out all of the boxes the bottles go in, and swap out the additives (it's more than one). Bob is the Oil Guy is great place to go see the differences in performance in the identical ASTM test.

July 24, 2018, 08:11 PM

sns3guppy

Neither Penzoil nor Quakerstate have sand in the oil, but a spectrometric oil analysis may turn up higher silica. Both tend to have higher ash concentrations than other brands, but it shouldn't be enough concern to turn away. It's more important that you do regular oil changes than you worry about the brand.

July 24, 2018, 08:12 PM

220-9er

I've used Rotella for years and it is great. The gas engine auto oils took out the zinc and other stuff years ago due to the catalytic converters but it works better than the replacements.

July 24, 2018, 10:15 PM

sigcrazy7

quote:
Originally posted by tatortodd:
quote:
Originally posted by PowerSurge:
quote:
Originally posted by tatortodd:
BTW, Bob is the Oil Guy is the most knowledgeable motor oil forum on the internet, and they can’t come to agreement on SAE 30 vs 10w-30 for small engines. It’s roughly 45% heavy duty SAE 30 vs 45% 10w-30 vs 10% 15w-40 or 15w-50 heavy duty oil.

They can’t come to an agreement on anything on that site. The best thing to do is follow the manufacturers recommendations. Honda and Briggs recommend 10w-30 as a direct replacement for SAE 30 in their small engines.
Here is an excerpt from the manual of a Toro commercial stand on mower with a 19hp Kawasaki:

quote:
Originally posted by mark123:
quote:
Originally posted by tatortodd:
quote:
Originally posted by Greymann:
I think 0w-30w is straight 30w, check your manual or call manufacturer for alternative wieght....
Incorrect. It’s got even better low temp starting properties than 5w-30 which is better than 10w-30 at low temps. Tends to be a tad more fuel efficient.

The OP is asking for a lawn mower so we don’t need to get much low temp performance since the mower will be in storage before it gets cold. 10w-30 is judt right fall mowing in Pennsyltucky.
It seems that I've been called to remove leaves in December every year so maybe a cold starting oil is in order.
Look at temp range on chart above. I used OW-30 in my snowblower when I lived in Alaska. You don’t need 0W-30 in a lawnmower. Use what your manual recommends.

If Toro is OK with oil with a classification as old as SF, then practically anything will do. Unless perhaps if you found some SA in grandad’s garage.

July 24, 2018, 10:22 PM

FN in MT

Talk about overthinking a simple issue. Thought I was on an HD site for a second. Thousands of threads on OIL.

July 24, 2018, 11:06 PM

Clem Eastwood

most of the SAE 30s had a CSt@100*c of around 10.0, just like most of the 10w30s. difference is that with the SAE 30 the CSt@40*c is typically between 80-100. The 10w30s @40 are usually between 60-70, so at low temp they flow better. I like others think the rotella would work fine, but you could also run some valvoline vr1.

July 25, 2018, 08:03 AM

sns3guppy

quote:
Originally posted by FN in MT:
Talk about overthinking a simple issue.

Absolutely correct.

The brand won't matter. The oil type won't matter, so long as it's in the correct range. Multi-weight won't hurt. Done.

July 25, 2018, 02:13 PM

mikeyspizza

quote:
Originally posted by Jelly:
You can order Quaker State Conventional SAE-30 through Wal Mart on line for like $3.26 a QT.

Free 2-Day Shipping on orders $35+ So order about 12 Qt should get you free shipping.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Qua...tor-Oil-1qt/14958312

If you pick up in store there is no shipping charge at all. You can order as few or many as you like.

July 26, 2018, 10:18 AM

mikeyspizza

Just noticed Lowe's in NC has this

July 26, 2018, 10:22 AM

lyman

quote:
Originally posted by sns3guppy:
Neither Penzoil nor Quakerstate have sand in the oil, but a spectrometric oil analysis may turn up higher silica. Both tend to have higher ash concentrations than other brands, but it shouldn't be enough concern to turn away. It's more important that you do regular oil changes than you worry about the brand.

if you are referring to my post, I was quoting some mechanics from about 1980,

I should have used the sarcasm smiley!

July 26, 2018, 10:26 AM

lyman

quote:
Originally posted by tatortodd:
quote:
Originally posted by lyman:
other than additives, what is the difference between a cheap off brand named 30 weight and a 'premium brand"??

likely nothing, since like Gas, it all comes thru the same refineries, just sold off as a commodity and packaged,
Partially correct, but it's erroneous to say different additives but no difference. In both motor oils and gasoline from brand to brand the additives are definitely different and additization rate is different which corresponds to performance differences.

Gasoline leaving the refinery is fungible, but at the distribution terminals loading rack (i.e. where they load the tanker trucks) is where the difference comes in. A loading rack will have the supermajors', majors', and generic additives (I've seen as many as 6 additive tanks at a loading rack meaning 5 proprietary additives and one generic additive). You can read more about Top Tier gasoline and diesel here, and the deposit control performance difference between ordinary and Top Tier.

Lube oil base stocks also leave the refinery the same, but at the lube plant is where the difference comes in. The assembly line is pretty neat to see in person and I've toured two. Outside, there are tall, skinny lube oil tanks (several weights of dino oil and several weights of synthetic oil) and inside there is an additive area with 55 gallon drums. When they switch oils (they have several grades of their own as well as making oils for the companies that don't have their own lube oil plant), it's a complete shutdown of the factory. They have to swap out all of the bottles, swap out all of the boxes the bottles go in, and swap out the additives (it's more than one). Bob is the Oil Guy is great place to go see the differences in performance in the identical ASTM test.

I used to run a few stores that had fuel centers,

we would get the commodity gas, no additives, for sale,
depending on contract, we had Shell or Amoco for a bit, then went to Kinder Morgan who was the supplier when I left the business,

I have a friend that works at the local Kinder Morgan distribution point/rack or whatever they call it,

he was telling me the same that you typed, about the additives that go in different brands,

he likes his job, other than the rotating shifts, says it can be really busy when getting deliveries via a pipeline, to mind numbingly boring if it is a slow time,