Switching oil band/type

July 24, 2018, 09:18 AM

tatortodd

quote:
Originally posted by Greymann:
I think 0w-30w is straight 30w, check your manual or call manufacturer for alternative wieght....

Incorrect. It’s got even better low temp starting properties than 5w-30 which is better than 10w-30 at low temps. Tends to be a tad more fuel efficient.

The OP is asking for a lawn mower so we don’t need to get much low temp performance since the mower will be in storage before it gets cold. 10w-30 is judt right fall mowing in Pennsyltucky.

July 24, 2018, 09:23 AM

tatortodd

BTW, Bob is the Oil Guy is the most knowledgeable motor oil forum on the internet, and they can’t come to agreement on SAE 30 vs 10w-30 for small engines. It’s roughly 45% heavy duty SAE 30 vs 45% 10w-30 vs 10% 15w-40 or 15w-50 heavy duty oil.

July 24, 2018, 09:28 AM

KMitch200

Oil change in a lawnmower...interesting.
Mine has had the same oil in it for the last 15-17(?) years. I just added about 2oz this summer so I should be GTG for another 5 yrs at least.

I did change the air filter at 10 years, pieces of it were falling off. The spark plug has been changed once 2 years ago. Maintenance is important!
At this point, I'm just curious on how much longer it will still start on the first pull.
Obviously, I'm not using it in a business capacity.

July 24, 2018, 09:29 AM

PowerSurge

quote:
Originally posted by tatortodd:
BTW, Bob is the Oil Guy is the most knowledgeable motor oil forum on the internet, and they can’t come to agreement on SAE 30 vs 10w-30 for small engines. It’s roughly 45% heavy duty SAE 30 vs 45% 10w-30 vs 10% 15w-40 or 15w-50 heavy duty oil.

They can’t come to an agreement on anything on that site. The best thing to do is follow the manufacturers recommendations. Honda and Briggs recommend 10w-30 as a direct replacement for SAE 30 in their small engines.

July 24, 2018, 09:37 AM

mark123

quote:
Originally posted by KMitch200:
Oil change in a lawnmower...interesting.
Mine has had the same oil in it for the last 15-17(?) years. I just added about 2oz this summer so I should be GTG for another 5 yrs at least.

I did change the air filter at 10 years, pieces of it were falling off. The spark plug has been changed once 2 years ago. Maintenance is important!
At this point, I'm just curious on how much longer it will still start on the first pull.
Obviously, I'm not using it in a business capacity.

I have a self propelled walking mower that I haven't ever changed the oil. I think I bought it 9 years ago used. I'm secretly hoping it quits working so I can drop the lawns that require getting of my butt. But that's a cheap mower and not a $10,000 albatross.

July 24, 2018, 09:42 AM

sns3guppy

quote:
Originally posted by mark123:
I've used Castrol GTX conventional oil in my 4-stroke mowing equipment for as long as I can remember. Mostly because SAE 30 was recommended by the mower shop and GTX was the only type locally and regularly available in 30.

Well, it's no longer available locally (doesn't even show on the Castol site on the GTX page) and no one plans to carry anything in straight 30. I just used my last 3 quarts of my stock and I'm looking for suggestions.

Mowing is how I feed the family so I've got to keep these machines running.

Thanks for any advice.

You are absolutely NOT going to harm the engine by using a different brand of oil, and you will not harm it by running a multi-weight oil instead of straight-weight.

A 10W30 weight oil begins operation at 10W, and achieves 30W as the oil warms; the idea is to allow unimpeded flow at colder temperatures, and as the oil warms, viscosity increases to the rated value. This will not harm your engine.

You can also mix brands; any of the oil brands on the market are compatible, and will not cause engine damage, loss of oil pressure, temperature issues, coking, sludge, or other problems.

I generally do not recommend swapping to a synthetic, and engines that have used a mineral oil can sometimes experience debris in the engine when going synthetic, as well as an increase in oil consumption. There are some "semi-synthetic" oils available which are fully compatible, and in theory any synthetic is also compatible; I don't recommend mixing mineral and synthetic or switching to synthetic if you've been running mineral.

Changing brands won't hurt, and you don't have to worry about using a multi-weight. It won't be a problem. Multi-weight is a bit more versatile, without any loss in properties.

Oil changes on small engines are just as important as on large, though many people don't do them. Small engines are mostly air cooled, and potentially experience more thermal breakdown of the oil, but the primary reason to change oil is the combustion byproducts that enter the oil during operation, and acids that wash off the case and cylinder walls and are retained in the oil. Oil should be changed on a calendar basis, and on an operational hours-basis.

July 24, 2018, 09:45 AM

mark123

quote:
Originally posted by tatortodd:
quote:
Originally posted by Greymann:
I think 0w-30w is straight 30w, check your manual or call manufacturer for alternative wieght....
Incorrect. It’s got even better low temp starting properties than 5w-30 which is better than 10w-30 at low temps. Tends to be a tad more fuel efficient.

The OP is asking for a lawn mower so we don’t need to get much low temp performance since the mower will be in storage before it gets cold. 10w-30 is judt right fall mowing in Pennsyltucky.

It seems that I've been called to remove leaves in December every year so maybe a cold starting oil is in order.

July 24, 2018, 09:49 AM

mark123

quote:
Originally posted by sns3guppy:
quote:
Originally posted by mark123:
I've used Castrol GTX conventional oil in my 4-stroke mowing equipment for as long as I can remember. Mostly because SAE 30 was recommended by the mower shop and GTX was the only type locally and regularly available in 30.

Well, it's no longer available locally (doesn't even show on the Castol site on the GTX page) and no one plans to carry anything in straight 30. I just used my last 3 quarts of my stock and I'm looking for suggestions.

Mowing is how I feed the family so I've got to keep these machines running.

Thanks for any advice.

You are absolutely NOT going to harm the engine by using a different brand of oil, and you will not harm it by running a multi-weight oil instead of straight-weight.

A 10W30 weight oil begins operation at 10W, and achieves 30W as the oil warms; the idea is to allow unimpeded flow at colder temperatures, and as the oil warms, viscosity increases to the rated value. This will not harm your engine.

You can also mix brands; any of the oil brands on the market are compatible, and will not cause engine damage, loss of oil pressure, temperature issues, coking, sludge, or other problems.

I generally do not recommend swapping to a synthetic, and engines that have used a mineral oil can sometimes experience debris in the engine when going synthetic, as well as an increase in oil consumption. There are some "semi-synthetic" oils available which are fully compatible, and in theory any synthetic is also compatible; I don't recommend mixing mineral and synthetic or switching to synthetic if you've been running mineral.

Changing brands won't hurt, and you don't have to worry about using a multi-weight. It won't be a problem. Multi-weight is a bit more versatile, without any loss in properties.

Oil changes on small engines are just as important as on large, though many people don't do them. Small engines are mostly air cooled, and potentially experience more thermal breakdown of the oil, but the primary reason to change oil is the combustion byproducts that enter the oil during operation, and acids that wash off the case and cylinder walls and are retained in the oil. Oil should be changed on a calendar basis, and on an operational hours-basis.

Thanks. I was sure that running synthetic would be a little more expensive with no real-world benefit. Especially since I am strict about timely oil and filter changes.

July 24, 2018, 09:50 AM

mrvmax

quote:
Originally posted by mark123:
I was hoping to avoid the Amsoil sales spiel. I have a great distrust for pyramid schemes.

It’s not Amway and sometimes buying in bulk is cheaper. When I had my diesel truck I bought synthetic oil 5 gallons at a time and their oil held up well with oil analysis proof for verification.

July 24, 2018, 09:52 AM

sns3guppy

You wouldn't see any benefit by going to a synthetic for your application, and you might see additional problems develop, starting with additional oil consumption and fouled spark plugs.

It sounds like you take much greater concern and care of your motor than about 99% of the owners out there.

July 24, 2018, 09:57 AM

SIG4EVA

Go to Lowes, Home Depot, Northern Tool, etc. They all carry SAE30.

July 24, 2018, 10:02 AM

tatortodd

quote:
Originally posted by PowerSurge:
quote:
Originally posted by tatortodd:
BTW, Bob is the Oil Guy is the most knowledgeable motor oil forum on the internet, and they can’t come to agreement on SAE 30 vs 10w-30 for small engines. It’s roughly 45% heavy duty SAE 30 vs 45% 10w-30 vs 10% 15w-40 or 15w-50 heavy duty oil.

They can’t come to an agreement on anything on that site. The best thing to do is follow the manufacturers recommendations. Honda and Briggs recommend 10w-30 as a direct replacement for SAE 30 in their small engines.

Here is an excerpt from the manual of a Toro commercial stand on mower with a 19hp Kawasaki:

quote:
Originally posted by mark123:
quote:
Originally posted by tatortodd:
quote:
Originally posted by Greymann:
I think 0w-30w is straight 30w, check your manual or call manufacturer for alternative wieght....
Incorrect. It’s got even better low temp starting properties than 5w-30 which is better than 10w-30 at low temps. Tends to be a tad more fuel efficient.

The OP is asking for a lawn mower so we don’t need to get much low temp performance since the mower will be in storage before it gets cold. 10w-30 is judt right fall mowing in Pennsyltucky.
It seems that I've been called to remove leaves in December every year so maybe a cold starting oil is in order.

Look at temp range on chart above. I used OW-30 in my snowblower when I lived in Alaska. You don’t need 0W-30 in a lawnmower. Use what your manual recommends.

July 24, 2018, 10:40 AM

jhe888

I don't know of any reason not to use 10w-30 or 10W-40.

And synthetic can't hurt and won't cost much for those small engines.

July 24, 2018, 10:48 AM

AJM

quote:
Originally posted by mark123:
quote:
Originally posted by egregore:
If I understand correctly, you can no longer find 30W by any maker? I can't imagine 10W30 harming anything.
The only reason I used Castrol is because it was available in 30. Since I have to switch to a winter weight oil I'm asking for brand and type suggestions.

***I imagine anything will work.***

This ^^^ just change it regularly....

July 24, 2018, 10:50 AM

HRK

It's like being on the HD motorcycle board in the 90's LOL, Bearing skate, too slippery, causes leaks, all the wives tails we've heard for years, funny when HD introduced it's first Synthetic oils, those same service managers tune changed overnight, "why synthetic is better your bike will run cooler, quieter, etc etc" LOL

Point being all the bs on syn vs dyno disappeared the day that HD started selling Synthetic, so amazingly overnight synthetic was no longer a problem nor caused any problems.

In regards to comparing 10W-30 synthetic and 10W-30 dyno on oil viscosity, there is no difference, 10W-30 is 10W-30.

The big difference is that synthetics sustain their cleaning and lubricating abilities better, they don't degrade over time from use and heat like dyno oil does. Synthetic maintains it's viscosity better, and hence one of the reasons you can run it longer.

As long you keep it changed on a regular basis, either is fine. You might find the engines run a bit cooler on synthetic even quieter and with it's cleaning properties, a bit cleaner internally.

Since finding 30W is becoming difficult switch to 10W-30 if the manual says it's acceptable,

With a multi grade oil you get the benefits of better oiling at startup all year long, and that means lubrication to bearing surfaces faster combined with the same 30W protection when the engines up to temp.

Synthetic or dyno? Either works, as long as you change it on time, and I'd imagine air filter changes are just as important if not more important considering the environment.

July 24, 2018, 11:01 AM

mark123

quote:
Originally posted by HRK:
It's like being on the HD motorcycle board in the 90's LOL, Bearing skate, too slippery, causes leaks, all the wives tails we've heard for years, funny when HD introduced it's first Synthetic oils, those same service managers tune changed overnight, "why synthetic is better your bike will run cooler, quieter, etc etc" LOL

Point being all the bs on syn vs dyno disappeared the day that HD started selling Synthetic, so amazingly overnight synthetic was no longer a problem nor caused any problems.

In regards to comparing 10W-30 synthetic and 10W-30 dyno on oil viscosity, there is no difference, 10W-30 is 10W-30.

The big difference is that synthetics sustain their cleaning and lubricating abilities better, they don't degrade over time from use and heat like dyno oil does. Synthetic maintains it's viscosity better, and hence one of the reasons you can run it longer.

As long you keep it changed on a regular basis, either is fine. You might find the engines run a bit cooler on synthetic even quieter and with it's cleaning properties, a bit cleaner internally.

Since finding 30W is becoming difficult switch to 10W-30 if the manual says it's acceptable,

With a multi grade oil you get the benefits of better oiling at startup all year long, and that means lubrication to bearing surfaces faster combined with the same 30W protection when the engines up to temp.

Synthetic or dyno? Either works, as long as you change it on time, and I'd imagine air filter changes are just as important if not more important considering the environment.

That's just it, if I've learned one thing about marketing hype it is "follow the money". Who paid for this study that says brand X is the best, oh, brand X funded it. Disregard.

July 24, 2018, 11:07 AM

HRK

The only similarity I can offer is that my HD Air cooled engines running dyno oil vs synthetic is that the engines have run cooler and quieter, something you appreciate at a stop light in FL in the summer months.

For the HD I run Mobil1 Vtwin 20W-50, its formulated for air cooled engines.

Try the 10W-30 syn in your mower, if they have specific oils for small engines, air cooled it's probably formulated a bit different to take into account the air cooled engines need.

See if it makes a difference...

In the long run to your original question, I'd run the multi-viscosity oil all year... Thinner oils at startup only help provide better oiling of your engine internals when they need it most, at start up.