Am I looking for a unicorn: truck with decent gas mileage, towing capability....

September 28, 2018, 05:33 PM

quote:
Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
Yep, you are right. I was looking at the diesel to discredit diesels. Doh!

Since my argument is gas vs diesel, to be fair, lets see if my argument is still valid by comparing Fords. Looks like the 3.0L diesel has a combined rating of 25mpg, while the 3.3L gasoline is rated at 22 combined. Say you were looking for a Ford F150 and were trying to decide between the gasoline or diesel. The breakdown looks like this:

Fuel prices at the Love's outside my window on 9/28. $2.899 gas. 3.589 diesel. Bulk DEF 2.769

3.3L Gasoline, 4.5 gal / 100 miles (22mpg) = 4.5*2.899 = $13.045 or 13.05 cents a mile.
3.0L Diesel, 4.0 gal / 100 miles (25mpg) = 4.0*3.589 = $14.356, + DEF @ 1% dosing = 1.1 cent. Total 15.46 cents a mile.

Right from the start, the gasoline option is $.024 cheaper per mile to operate, before figuring in upfront costs and maintenance. I believe the upgrade option from the 3.3l to the 3.0l diesel is $2700. This is money down the hole, since you aren't realizing any operational savings, but actually loosing more money per mile with the diesel. Many other items, like oil changes, are also up-charged on diesel services. How about additives, like Howells, during subzero weather. Or DPF/DOC maintenance. My neighbor just had $800 worth of injectors done on his GM pickup with about 100K miles. My gas engine in my truck has 198,000 without being touched beyond routine maintenance. The list goes on.

In short, gasoline engines are:
Cheaper to buy.
Cheaper to operate.
Cheaper to maintain.

*The mileage numbers were taken from fueleconomy.gov Both pickups were 2WD models.
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/fe...rd_F150_Pickup.shtml

Look, some people like diesels and the power and torque is worth the slight extra cost. Some people prefer gas...I don't get my panties in a wad over your choice. You should respect mine. It's just like choosing a larger engine than the stock base model......

One other point in using the EPA mileage figures is that the turbo gas engines common in Fords (Ecoboost) don't come near their EPA ratings while the diesels usually exceed it and I have several Fords as well.

September 28, 2018, 07:06 PM

jimmy123x

Diesels really excel if you do a lot of idling time, here they burn almost nothing sitting in a parking lot idling. OR, if you're towing heavy stuff where you really need the torque.

Otherwise the EPA has really screwed the pooch on the advantages of diesel with the requirement of DEF fluid and the price of diesel.

I run a lot of diesels and burn LOTS of diesel fuel, but it's offroad diesel and cheaper than gasoline at the pump. I just ran a set of diesels in a sportfish burning 196 GPH at cruise (80% load). It's almost unfathomable, what I'm pouring out of the tail pipe (so to speak) to do a 35 knot cruise speed. Damn near 2000 gallons to do 300 miles (Naples to Fort Lauderdale,FL). The EPA is finally screwing with marine diesels and the Tier 3 diesels that are coming out have huge after burn catalyst crap on them to clean up exhaust gases and won't fit in a lot of yachts.

For most people in a truck gas is cheaper to run and powerful enough to do everything they need to do. I have an ecoboost Expedition and it puts out 425lbs of torque at 1500 rpms. I'm getting 16 mpg right now with mostly city driving and it pretty much matches the EPA estimates.

September 28, 2018, 07:56 PM

sigcrazy7

quote:
Originally posted by smlsig:
Look, some people like diesels and the power and torque is worth the slight extra cost. Some people prefer gas...I don't get my panties in a wad over your choice. You should respect mine. It's just like choosing a larger engine than the stock base model......

I haven't berated anybody for choosing diesel. My only issue is with those who present it as the cost effective option for a light truck. It is not.

If you want one simply because they're cool, or you like their performance characteristics, or whatever, that's fine, and I respect you no less for it. In fact, I have lots of diesel engines myself.

September 29, 2018, 06:54 AM

smlsig

quote:
Originally posted by jimmy123x:
Diesels really excel if you do a lot of idling time, here they burn almost nothing sitting in a parking lot idling. OR, if you're towing heavy stuff where you really need the torque...

Jimmy, just in case anyone is still reading this I wanted to point out that once these diesels get all the exhaust crap put on it idling is about the worst thing you can do with these set ups. most Owners manuals suggest minimizing idling. Many of us in the construction business are finding out that instead of trading in and getting a new piece of equipment it might be better in the long run (in terms of minimizing downtime) to just do a complete rebuild. The problem is you loos the tax depreciation...

I don't know what those sportfishers will do about slow speed trolling.....

September 29, 2018, 03:15 PM

jimmy123x

quote:
Originally posted by smlsig:
quote:
Originally posted by jimmy123x:
Diesels really excel if you do a lot of idling time, here they burn almost nothing sitting in a parking lot idling. OR, if you're towing heavy stuff where you really need the torque...

Jimmy, just in case anyone is still reading this I wanted to point out that once these diesels get all the exhaust crap put on it idling is about the worst thing you can do with these set ups. most Owners manuals suggest minimizing idling. Many of us in the construction business are finding out that instead of trading in and getting a new piece of equipment it might be better in the long run (in terms of minimizing downtime) to just do a complete rebuild. The problem is you loos the tax depreciation...

I don't know what those sportfishers will do about slow speed trolling.....

Ohhhh I know. The EPA mandated crap has really screwed up the diesels. I don't know what the Sportfish are going to do, the engines are just coming out now. MTU introduced the afterburner deals for their 16 cylinder diesels. I haven't seen them any on the new 2018 model yachts I've been running. But they come out in a year or two. Last weekend I ran 3 yachts with a set of 2018 Cat C12.9's (1000HP), 2018 Cat C18 acerts (1150hp), and a set of 2017 MTU 16v2000 2600HP. Cat discontinued the bulletproof 1000HP C18 that's been out for 14 years or so because it wouldn't pass current emissions and they didn't want to sink tons of money into it to get it to pass current emissions, and adopted/marinized a FIAT 1000HP C12.9 and they're very problematic compared to the bulletproof C18's they replaced, very problematic. I put 100 hours on a set in a different boat and many major issues, know of one that already grenaded in another boat. etc.

I have a few friends that yanked off all of the EPA crap from their newer diesel pickups, and instantly picked up 2-3 mpg. I have another buddy whose a diesel/outboard mechanic with a F250 with a powerstroke 7.3 in it and he has 450k miles on it. He runs 50% drain oil in the fuel and it burns clean, runs quieter, and runs out it no problem, he's been doing this for 10 years with no issues, and all he does to the drain oil is pours it through a paint strainer!!!!!

September 29, 2018, 04:02 PM

Rebel-22

quote:
Originally posted by sig77:
Eco boost F150

This

September 29, 2018, 05:20 PM

Jumper

Chiming in on the Tacoma.

Until my 2007 (bought new) V6 was totalled a few weeks ago, it had gone through nothing more than one U-joint.

I could have saved thousands buying a GM and using the discount on my father's GM card.

Never regretted my decision for a second.

September 29, 2018, 05:53 PM

trapper189

quote:
Originally posted by smlsig:

Jimmy, just in case anyone is still reading this I wanted to point out that once these diesels get all the exhaust crap put on it idling is about the worst thing you can do with these set ups. most Owners manuals suggest minimizing idling.

My own experience with my own little truck is that idling clogs the DPF forcing more regens killing my mileage. In fact, I can be getting decent mileage, 20, on the highway, but then a regen happens and the mileage drops to 16 when finished. It seems the more load I have, the fewer regens the motor does and the shorter the regens are. For example, towing my 5th wheel, I might see a regen every 1,000 miles vs every 400 miles without a load and the regen seems to take 10 minutes instead of 20 minutes. There isn't an appreciable mileage dropped while towing when a regen happens either. It stays between 8.5 and 9mpg.

September 29, 2018, 09:27 PM

cooger

Wow you guys are speaking Greek to me about the diesel stuff. I have no desire to go that route. I appreciate everyone’s input. There are some nice used Frontiers local that I’ll go check out. I’ll also reconsider the Tacoma.

October 02, 2018, 02:10 PM

jmalb

quote:
Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
Yep, you are right. I was looking at the diesel to discredit diesels. Doh!

Since my argument is gas vs diesel, to be fair, lets see if my argument is still valid by comparing Fords. Looks like the 3.0L diesel has a combined rating of 25mpg, while the 3.3L gasoline is rated at 22 combined. Say you were looking for a Ford F150 and were trying to decide between the gasoline or diesel. The breakdown looks like this:

Fuel prices at the Love's outside my window on 9/28. $2.899 gas. 3.589 diesel. Bulk DEF 2.769

3.3L Gasoline, 4.5 gal / 100 miles (22mpg) = 4.5*2.899 = $13.045 or 13.05 cents a mile.
3.0L Diesel, 4.0 gal / 100 miles (25mpg) = 4.0*3.589 = $14.356, + DEF @ 1% dosing = 1.1 cent. Total 15.46 cents a mile.

Right from the start, the gasoline option is $.024 cheaper per mile to operate, before figuring in upfront costs and maintenance. I believe the upgrade option from the 3.3l to the 3.0l diesel is $2700. This is money down the hole, since you aren't realizing any operational savings, but actually loosing more money per mile with the diesel. Many other items, like oil changes, are also up-charged on diesel services. How about additives, like Howells, during subzero weather. Or DPF/DOC maintenance. My neighbor just had $800 worth of injectors done on his GM pickup with about 100K miles. My gas engine in my truck has 198,000 without being touched beyond routine maintenance. The list goes on.

In short, gasoline engines are:
Cheaper to buy.
Cheaper to operate.
Cheaper to maintain.

*The mileage numbers were taken from fueleconomy.gov Both pickups were 2WD models.
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/fe...rd_F150_Pickup.shtml

Your upgrade price is off. But only because Ford (like GM) mandates Lariat (LTZ for Chevy)trim level or above for the diesel. Meaning $2700 PLUS whatever the difference it is for the trim upgrade. The 2.7 Ecoboost is the base engine for Lariat trim. But the point is still the same.