Had temporary duty on the USS VALDEZ DE1096. Sister ship to the USS Miller. DE1091 Could get lost in the shadow of a Carrier. That size ship was a wild ride in the North Atlantic this time of year.

Doris - a step up to have your name on a bird farm. Thank you.

.

Slight thread drift - how does a ship cost $13B? I assume that's development costs, spare parts, and owner's manual.

quote:

Originally posted by Russ59:
Slight thread drift - how does a ship cost $13B? I assume that's development costs, spare parts, and owner's manual.

The news reports are citing the costs of the USS Ford CVN-78, which is the first ship in class and with it carry's much of the R&D expense. In theory, build costs should depreciate as successive ships of the same class are built; since CVN-81 will be the 4th ship of the class, that should hold true. The hangup with the Ford-class is too many technologies were incorporated into the design which were immature and thus, the cost overruns have been staggering, hence the $13B price-tag. The ship was started in 2009, commissioned in 2017, it's now 2020 and is nowhere close to joining the deployment cycle.

Over sixty years ago I can recall a group of old guys talking about money. My father said if you want to make a lot of money get into ship building. He said everybody makes money building ships; owners, architects, welders, pipe fitters, everybody. Of course, I had no idea what he was talking about until I joined the Navy. Today I’m watching guys retiring from the submarine business with 401k accounts well over a million dollars.

Building ships is good business.

For certain - "Hey, this $12B ship is gonna cost more because you asked for more shit in it, fork over another $2B or we can't finish it, ok?"

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:
The news reports are citing the costs of the USS Ford CVN-78, which is the first ship in class and with it carry's much of the R&D expense. In theory, build costs should depreciate as successive ships of the same class are built; since CVN-81 will be the 4th ship of the class, that should hold true. The hangup with the Ford-class is too many technologies were incorporated into the design which were immature and thus, the cost overruns have been staggering, hence the $13B price-tag. The ship was started in 2009, commissioned in 2017, it's now 2020 and is nowhere close to joining the deployment cycle.

Yes, the first one always costs the most due to R&D, figuring out the best way to manufacture, etc.

Which is why it was always mindnumbingly stupid when they stop building something for 'cost over-runs' after the first couple of deliveries - ala the F-22, DDG-1000, etc. Because that R&D cost is never recouped / utilized to the extent it should have been.

Quite an honor for Doris and his family.

Doris Miller, known as "Dorie" to shipmates and friends, was born in Waco, Texas, on 12 October 1919, to Henrietta and Conery Miller. He had three brothers, one of which served in the Army during World War II. While attending Moore High School in Waco, he was a fullback on the football team. He worked on his father's farm before enlisting in the U.S Navy as Mess Attendant, Third Class, at Dallas, Texas, on 16 September 1939, to travel, and earn money for his family. He later was commended by the Secretary of the Navy, was advanced to Mess Attendant, Second Class and First Class, and subsequently was promoted to Cook, Third Class.

Following training at the Naval Training Station, Norfolk, Virginia, Miller was assigned to the ammunition ship USS Pyro (AE-1) where he served as a Mess Attendant, and on 2 January 1940 was transferred to USS West Virginia (BB-48), where he became the ship's heavyweight boxing champion. In July of that year he had temporary duty aboard USS Nevada (BB-36) at Secondary Battery Gunnery School. He returned to West Virginia and on 3 August, and was serving in that battleship when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor on 7 December 1941. Miller had arisen at 6 a.m., and was collecting laundry when the alarm for general quarters sounded. He headed for his battle station, the antiaircraft battery magazine amidship, only to discover that torpedo damage had wrecked it, so he went on deck. Because of his physical prowess, he was assigned to carry wounded fellow Sailors to places of greater safety. Then an officer ordered him to the bridge to aid the mortally wounded Captain of the ship. He subsequently manned a 50 caliber Browning anti-aircraft machine gun until he ran out of ammunition and was ordered to abandon ship.

Miller described firing the machine gun during the battle, a weapon which he had not been trained to operate: "It wasn't hard. I just pulled the trigger and she worked fine. I had watched the others with these guns. I guess I fired her for about fifteen minutes. I think I got one of those Jap planes. They were diving pretty close to us."

During the attack, Japanese aircraft dropped two armored piercing bombs through the deck of the battleship and launched five 18-inch aircraft torpedoes into her port side. Heavily damaged by the ensuing explosions, and suffering from severe flooding below decks, the crew abandoned ship while West Virginia slowly settled to the harbor bottom. Of the 1,541 men on West Virginia during the attack, 130 were killed and 52 wounded. Subsequently refloated, repaired, and modernized, the battleship served in the Pacific theater through to the end of the war in August 1945.

Miller was commended by the Secretary of the Navy Frank Knox on 1 April 1942, and on 27 May 1942 he received the Navy Cross, which Fleet Admiral (then Admiral) Chester W. Nimitz, the Commander in Chief, Pacific Fleet personally presented to Miller on board aircraft carrier USS Enterprise (CV-6) for his extraordinary courage in battle. Speaking of Miller, Nimitz remarked:

This marks the first time in this conflict that such high tribute has been made in the Pacific Fleet to a member of his race and I'm sure that the future will see others similarly honored for brave acts.

On 13 December 1941, Miller reported to USS Indianapolis (CA-35), and subsequently returned to the west coast of the United States in November 1942. Assigned to the newly constructed USS Liscome Bay (CVE-56) in the spring of 1943, Miller was on board that escort carrier during Operation Galvanic, the seizure of Makin and Tarawa Atolls in the Gilbert Islands. Liscome Bay's aircraft supported operations ashore between 20-23 November 1943. At 5:10 a.m. on 24 November, while cruising near Butaritari Island, a single torpedo from Japanese submarine I-175 struck the escort carrier near the stern. The aircraft bomb magazine detonated a few moments later, sinking the warship within minutes. Listed as missing following the loss of that escort carrier, Miller was officially presumed dead 25 November 1944, a year and a day after the loss of Liscome Bay. Only 272 Sailors survived the sinking of Liscome Bay, while 646 died.

In addition to the Navy Cross, Miller was entitled to the Purple Heart Medal; the American Defense Service Medal, Fleet Clasp; the Asiatic-Pacific Campaign Medal; and the World War II Victory Medal.

Commissioned on 30 June 1973, USS Miller (FF-1091), a Knox-class frigate, was named in honor of Doris Miller.

On 11 October 1991, Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority dedicated a bronze commemorative plaque of Miller at the Miller Family Park located on the U.S. Naval Base, Pearl Harbor.

https://www.history.navy.mil/r...-m/miller-doris.html

quote:

Originally posted by Russ59:
Slight thread drift - how does a ship cost $13B? I assume that's development costs, spare parts, and owner's manual.

Because the military industrial complex see's the DoD as the goose.

quote:

Originally posted by Sig209:
had to be a badass growing up with a first name of Doris

---------------------------------------

Wonder if he was the inspiration for the Boy Named Sue song ?

quote:

Which is why it was always mindnumbingly stupid when they stop building something for 'cost over-runs' after the first couple of deliveries - ala the F-22, DDG-1000, etc. Because that R&D cost is never recouped / utilized to the extent it should have been.

Thanks Obama.

The F-22 is especially galling, because the F-35 cost way more in the end and the F-22 is a better airplane.

quote:

Originally posted by 380Swift:

quote:

Which is why it was always mindnumbingly stupid when they stop building something for 'cost over-runs' after the first couple of deliveries - ala the F-22, DDG-1000, etc. Because that R&D cost is never recouped / utilized to the extent it should have been.

Thanks Obama.

The F-22 is especially galling, because the F-35 cost way more in the end and the F-22 is a better airplane.

More like Robert Gates. Cuts were made as he was reallocating war funding at the expense of new evolutionary platforms like the F-22. Under Obama, Gates wasn't going to get any more funding for the warfighters so, it became a robbing Peter to pay Paul situation. It was Congress and its subcommittees that should've put a halt to it and grilled the service chiefs and SecDef about some of their decisions...and Obama for squeezing the mil budget.

F22 and F35, two different aircraft, two different missions. They're not comparable.

Obama administration wanted to mothball the M1a1 tank plant at Lima Ohio, but smarter minds changed their minds and today it’s running full blast on new model tanks and troop carriers. Millions saved.

I think capital ships should carry names of things (states, historic events etc...) much larger than an individual in scope and absolutely no ships named for politicians.

quote:

Originally posted by Kraquin:
I think capital ships should carry names of things (states, historic events etc...) much larger than an individual in scope and absolutely no ships named for politicians.

There is a process in place. It’s called the United States ship naming convention. Very old. Very traditional...until Obama came along and fucked up everything.

quote:

Originally posted by PD:

quote:

Originally posted by Kraquin:
I think capital ships should carry names of things (states, historic events etc...) much larger than an individual in scope and absolutely no ships named for politicians.

There is a process in place. It’s called the United States ship naming convention. Very old. Very traditional...until Obama came along and f-d up everything.

There have been politics involved in naming ships for decades, and it didn't start with president stampy-feet.

In the 1960-70s, they changed the naming convention for submarines. They used to be named after fish and marine animals: USS Tang, Sailfish, Balao, Narwhale, etc. Once the Los Angeles-class came along, attack subs were named after cities: USS Los Angeles, Greeneville, Dallas, etc. When asked about this name changing scheme, one navy guy said "Fish don't vote" (or allocate funding).

The missile subs were named after states (USS Ohio, Michigan, etc). I don't have a problem with this, since we don't build battleships anymore (which had state names (USS Iowa, Arizona, New Jersey), and missile boats can be considered capital ships.

Then, they REALLY messed things up the Seawolf class - USS Seawolf, Connecticut, and Jimmy Carter.

Now, the new attack boats of the Virginia class are named after states. And the newest class of missile boats is (tentatively, I'm sure) planned to be named the Columbia Class.

I wish they went back to traditional aircraft carrier names - Hornet, Wasp, Ranger, Lexington, Saratoga, etc. Of course, they will never do this, except in very rare circumstances, such as USS Enterprise.

There’s always exceptions but Obama took it to the point of embarrassment for any Navy veteran.

Under the "very old, very traditional" naming convention, carriers were named after battles and 18th/19th century USN ships. If you want to pinpoint where politics broke that down, look at USS Forrestal, ordered in 1952; continued with John F. Kennedy and tied down with the Nimitz class in the 60s. The original naming line has since been taken over by helicopter landing ships (which are the size of WW II carriers) .

Politics out of this thread

Chris42, the USS Valdez was named after my cousin Phil Isadore Valdez.

http://hispanicmedalofhonorsoc...hip8_USS_Valdez.html

That's right. He deserves it.