Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
Lost |
Apparently that nonresponsive Cessna that flew over restricted airspace in Washington D.C. yesterday reportedly carried family members of NRA executive committee member Barbara Rumpel, who has served on the NRA's Women's Leadership Forum. Her daughter and granddaughter, and their nanny, were among the four people killed when the plane finally crashed in the mountains of Virginia. Her husband is a prominent FL businessman. Fox News | ||
|
Striker in waiting |
Damn. We felt the boom and immediately started dealing with the rumor mill (explosion in D.C., earthquake in NoVa, etc.), but the first credible report was from DOD via our County Emergency Mgmt. office, which at the time, had stated that a NG jet had gone supersonic as part of a "planned exercise". I kind of figured that was crap, which was only confirmed last night. I saw the names this morning, but hadn't made the connection. Sad all around. What kind of failsafe systems are in place on these jets in case of decompression? Obviously no masks are dropping from the ceiling, but I'd expect there would at least be a pony bottle or something similar for the pilot so he can breathe while he dives to air? Or is it more insidious than that? If it happens gradually, how is there no warning? If it happens suddenly, how is there not time to drop altitude? -Rob I predict that there will be many suggestions and statements about the law made here, and some of them will be spectacularly wrong. - jhe888 A=A | |||
|
אַרְיֵה |
If the flight was not conducted for hire, Part 91 of the FAR's would be applicable. If for hire, then Part 135 would apply.
הרחפת שלי מלאה בצלופחים | |||
|
Fighting the good fight |
I seem to recall other recent/semi-recent cases in which after a sudden depressurization the pilot was unable to don or activate his emergency O2 in time, resulting in loss of consciousness. IIRC, one happened just this way several years ago. Something about how the valve to turn on the emergency oxygen was just out of reach from the pilot's seat and/or was backwards from the way it was intended to be. Might have involved a celebrity or famous athlete? | |||
|
| come and take it |
If it was rapid decompression I think the pilot would likely have known, a bang or a pop and the cabin getting instantly cold. The slow decompression is insidious. You get loopy, drunk feeling, can't think straight and then pass out. There are supposed to be alarms but obviously something went wrong. Above 30,000 feet the time to get the oxygen mask on is about 1 minute, above 40k it's 15 seconds. Some military pilots have trained in a hyperbaric chamber and will recognize the foggy thinking signs and get the mask on. Civilian pilots usually don't catch it. I have a few SIGs. | |||
|
| Why don’t you fix your little problem and light this candle  |
I saw a guy on twitter point out that a plane was approaching DC and aircraft were being scrambled. It reminded me of this event from 1999. link A Learjet carrying professional golfer Payne Stewart and at least four others streaked uncontrolled for thousands of miles across the heart of the country today, its occupants apparently unconscious or already dead, before it plunged nose first and crashed in a field near this north-central South Dakota hamlet. ... The cause of the uncontrolled flight and crash after the Learjet 35 apparently ran out of fuel were not known, but aviation experts speculated that the aircraft may have lost pressurization and that emergency backup systems failed as the plane's autopilot kept it in the air. Loss of pressurization above 30,000 feet would cause occupants of the aircraft to lose consciousness from oxygen deficiency in one to two minutes, the experts said. During some of its eerie, almost four-hour journey from Orlando to a swampy grassland in South Dakota, the Learjet was shadowed by Air Force and Air National Guard jet fighters, whose pilots reported that the aircraft's windows were frosted over, suggesting that it had lost pressurization. The Air Force pilots also reported that the Learjet meandered from as low as 22,000 feet to as high as 51,000 feet, but never strayed from a northwest heading. ... This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it. -Rear Admiral (Lower Half) Joshua Painter Played by Senator Fred Thompson | |||
|
| Fighting the good fight |
Similar incident in Europe just last year, also on a Cessna Citation aircraft: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...essna_Citation_crash | |||
|
| Lawyers, Guns and Money  |
What gets me is that the plane made it to Long Island, where it was supposed to land, and didn't make contact with the airport?  The civilian aircraft flew from Elizabethton, Tennessee, past its destination – New York’s Long Island MacArthur Airport – and then turned back before eventually crashing in Virginia on Sunday afternoon, according to NORAD and LiveATC.net. The details of why the plane veered so far off course and what caused the crash are still unclear. First responders said the crash site is amid steep, mountainous terrain that is difficult to reach on foot. "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
|
Member |
Are you thinking of Payne Stewart, the golfer? Hedley Lamarr: Wait, wait, wait. I'm unarmed. Bart: Alright, we'll settle this like men, with our fists. Hedley Lamarr: Sorry, I just remembered . . . I am armed. | |||
|
| Peace through superior firepower  |
Before too long, a Parallax View-type conspiracy theory will arise out of this. | |||
|
| come and take it |
This crash of a turbo prop has Air Traffic Control recordings. The pilot was in the upper 20k levels and caught that there was a problem, but his thinking wasn't clear. He requested lower altitude, ATC delayed him and he should have just dove to 12k feet. Plane went on autopilot till it ran out of fuel and crashed. I have a few SIGs. | |||
|
Member |
Everyone around here was freaking out because choppers were circling first for the search and then for getting assets to the crash site. The panic and conspiracy theories flying were worse than any Enquirer splash page I’ve ever seen. | |||
|
| come and take it |
Pilot was unconscious and plane on autopilot. The last turn at ISP over the airport was programmed into autopilot. If the pilot had been awake at that point he would have turned it off and descended to the runway. I have a few SIGs. | |||
|
| Peace through superior firepower |
Everyone "freaks out" now over anything, conditioned to do so by our senasationalist tabloid news media. | |||
|
| Lost |
You're not thinking about John Denver, are you? Although that happened quite a while ago at this point, and it was a fuel tank switch, and not oxygen. | |||
|
| Fighting the good fight |
Perhaps. I may have been conflating several different half-remembered plane crash incidents, like the John Denver fuel valve issue, the Payne Stewart depressurization issue, and last year's Baltic Sea "ghost plane" depressurization incident. | |||
|
| No More Mr. Nice Guy |
There should be an alarm if the cabin pressure falls to the equivalent of 10,000 feet. In the event of a slow leak, and if the pilot hasn't noticed the pressure change in his ears, the alarm should immediately cause the pilot to put on his O2 mask and seek a lower altitude. A rapid or explosive decompression requires the pilot do nothing except put on his O2 and establish communication with the other pilot. Generally I would expect an emergency descent immediately thereafter. Human nature has an unfortunate characteristics of trying to solve the puzzle and not draw attention. Airline training stresses how critical it is to do nothing else but get the mask on. I've had moderate rates of depressurization at altitudes below 20,000 and the natural reaction to ears popping is to look at the pressurization system panel and try to figure out if there is a simple fix like flip a switch that was accidentally bumped. Wrong but natural. Eventually they'll figure out the cause of this crash, whether it was a malfunctioning O2 system or something else. | |||
|
| Smarter than the average bear |
I’m not a pilot and don’t know anything about this, but it seems that it wouldn’t be too difficult to have the plane turn off auto pilot and begin descending in the event of a depressurization. I get why they may not like the idea of the aircraft descending on its own, but what’s the alternative? It’s coming down eventually either way. | |||
|
| Happiness is Vectored Thrust  |
I can't speak for civilian flight training, but we received a lot of aviation physiology training in flight school including experiencing hypoxia in an altitude chamber. It's insidious the way it creeps up on you - you don't feel anything unusual at all and it's hard to recognize that you're abilities are becoming impaired. I remember them telling us to check our fingernails as early on they turn a dark blue which is a great indicator that you're not getting the oxygen you think you're getting. Icarus flew too close to the sun, but at least he flew. | |||
|
| Member |
Payne Stewarts Lear Jet did not depressurize, it never pressurized because the crew never activated the system before T.O. The 10000ft warning horn had been incorrectly de-activated in an attempt to inactivate the 306 Knot overspeed horn, basically someone cut the wrong wire. The FAA investigation discovered disabling the 306kt overspeed warning system was wide spread within the Lear Jet community. Additionally, the oxygen tank valve was found in the off position. that's a pre flight item not discovered before flight. Very long story!! I'm in Pilot sudden death camp.Today most charter clients are requesting Pilots that haven't had the shot | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 3 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
© SIGforum 2024