quote:

Originally posted by slosig:

quote:

Originally posted by chongosuerte:
That pension though...just got to make 15 more years and not get fired...in a city ran by Democrats.

I know nothing about the city and state finances where you are. What are the chances your agency will be able to pay in a pension in 15 years? I wouldn’t bet on it in CA or IL, but maybe NC is in better financial shape?

NC police retirements are run by the state, not the city or town where they live or work. Chong could move to Any small town and get the same retirement. And that is my suggestion Chongo. Go find something like Lincolnton or nearby and ride it out there.

I would have left my former department for all the same reasons politicians, the dumbing down of recruits, hiring people who only filled a diversity checkbox, and plain cowards, had I not had that second stroke. I had already looked at Knightdale. Or I woulda taken an early retirement at age 50(my city offered it to all employees and state law require it apply to cops and firefighters also)

quote:

Originally posted by BigNC:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by Yanert98:
Do we have any idea what mystical "Warrior Training" is being banned? Any specifics mentioned?

Have cops been sneaking a few slots in Ranger School lately? Nope.

So it sounds like fluff speech to me. Virtue signalling that Warriors are not wanted.

Are they really going to say cops can't roll jitz, box, or attend krav classes anymore?

I don't get it.

It is something that sounds scary. The rhetoric sounds similar to that of those that cry that ARs are weapons of war and have no place on our streets.

I am equally as bewildered as to what “cop specific” training in this front is.

Remember Parkland? That’s what this article breeds.

www DOT Copspectraining.com is available.... just sayin.


Also, I think you guys are right- the training isn't the problem- the rhetoric is. I am as paranoid as the next guy when DHS buys millions of rounds and APC/ MRAP style vehicles- but so what if the local Mayberry SD (like my local SD that is awesome) rolls up to a Meth King's house in an MRAP to keep from getting shot?

I guess I'll change my tune when "they" come in an APC for my guns. (INSERT ROLLING EYES. )

I think you are on to it, BIGNC. This is just an extension of Barack Obama's War On Cops. The beauty of this campaign is many are railing against something by saying nothing. Nobody can tell you what "warrior training" is, nor what "cop specific" training is. It is nothing more than sound, light and fury over a bayonet mount, and the shoulder thingy that goes up.

Ball caps? Body armor? Really? These are your concerns? Ball caps, body armor or training doesn't make someone an asshole. They likely were an asshole long before they got any of that.

The left and their foot soldiers, even the unwitting ones around here, are specifically going after the police with a goal in mind. Continue the class warfare, make being a local cop unbearable financially, and eventually take federal control of state and local law enforcement. My guess is unionize them, and make them a part of Homeland and TSA. That's simply the end goal. I'm sure that many will laugh and call that a crack pot theory. That's fine. Simply point to the left and their desire to federalize, and unionize every other facet of your lives, and then say "But, ohhhh, that won't do that to the police" and see how dumb that sounds. "Warrior Training" won't be bad as long as it is federalized.

They're playing the long game. I often ask when gun confiscation comes up, who will come to your house and seize them. I get grumblings until someone goes "OOOOHHHH OOOOOOHHH OOOOOHHHH BUT KATRINA" and sheepishly looks around for a pat on the head and group think. The answer is, as it stands, if you live in a free state, no one. Wait another 20 years, and maybe another DEM pResident, and you'll get your answer.

Stop with this nonsense of ball caps and body armor. Stop helping the left with this "I'm just going to say it" nonsense. I teach military tactics to cops almost on a weekly basis. Why should we not use the best, safest tactics available that was brought to us by guys that paid for those tactics in blood just so we can be trendy?

The left has given us a gift in this, so let's use it. Body Cams. They were sure that body cam videos would show wide spread "police violence", whatever that is. It hasn't. And the left now are seeing that body worn cameras are a bad idea for the cause. If officers are being assholes, use the body cameras to weed them. It is a tool, and if it is used correctly, an effective one. Believe it or not, we weed out the assholes as we can.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeinNC:

quote:

Originally posted by slosig:

quote:

Originally posted by chongosuerte:
That pension though...just got to make 15 more years and not get fired...in a city ran by Democrats.

I know nothing about the city and state finances where you are. What are the chances your agency will be able to pay in a pension in 15 years? I wouldn’t bet on it in CA or IL, but maybe NC is in better financial shape?

NC police retirements are run by the state, not the city or town where they live or work. Chong could move to Any small town and get the same retirement. And that is my suggestion Chongo. Go find something like Lincolnton or nearby and ride it out there.

I would have left my former department for all the same reasons politicians, the dumbing down of recruits, hiring people who only filled a diversity checkbox, and plain cowards, had I not had that second stroke. I had already looked at Knightdale. Or I woulda taken an early retirement at age 50(my city offered it to all employees and state law require it apply to cops and firefighters also)

Comes down to finally being in a position to help young officers be real cops, and money. No way I can make the same money anywhere else in the state.


Never working again after I’m 51 will be worth the suck.

At the individual level in a close quarter lethal encounter....how are the marksmanship, weapons handling, and tactics different based on uniform style or lack thereof? (Meaning LE vs. civilian vs. military.)

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:
At the individual level in a close quarter lethal encounter....how are the marksmanship, weapons handling, and tactics different based on uniform style or lack thereof? (Meaning LE vs. civilian vs. military.)

To expound on this, the lines between LE/.mil have been blurred since the 60s. And I'm NOT talking about foolish things like MRAPs and ball caps.

After 9/11, military special operations had very little CQB experience. SOME really elite units had it, but across the whole, it didn't exist. This was particularly true for Green Berets. They began to lean on police outfits who were serving dope warrants on a daily basis for newfound knowledge. They took the zone/floating room entry techniques to the sandbox and lost a lot of guys. The tactics learned were those that worked well in a housing project in South Central, where the goal was to run to the back of the house to stop dope from being flushed. But, they didn't apply at all to makeshift clay houses with a .50 cal set up in the second room.

So, tactics began to evolve on how to defeat these threats and have a whole new level of safety in CQB. These tactics were paid for in blood. 15 years later, LE enjoys these tactics making it safer for the cops and bad guys alike. The guys that we traditionally shot in the first room are now getting called out on a threshold assessment. Some are still getting dumped because they grab a gun and act stupid.

These same tactics are pushed out to patrol officers for active shooter. And they work. I saw them work first hand at the Marshall County High School shooting a year ago. I'm sure some here are in a panic because cops carry tourniquets on their gear these days as a "URBAN WARRIOR" macho thing. I watched a good friend of mine put a TQ on a 14 year old shooting victims, which probably saved her life. They then hustled her out, hijacked a maint truck, and got her to a waiting ambulance in the cold zone. Basic stop the bleed combat medicine that we learned from SF units, that many years ago we would not have had on us. Oh, and my friend that put the TQ on? Yeah, he came right back, found our team, and went back to hunting the shooter. And cried about it several days later.

The idea that these tactics are bad are absurd. And the lefty dems and their sympathizers are just showing their agenda.

quote:

Originally posted by flashguy:

I suspect there are a lot of big-city cops who would vociferously disagree with you, and probably some of the citizens they serve, too. There are parts of certain large cities that definitely would qualify as "war zones" as the probability of being shot in them exceeds that in Iraq or Afghanistan.

flashguy

Bull. They are not dealing with IED's and terrorists.

Change the F'-n name.
Problem solved.

"Tactical mindset"
"Situational Awareness training"
"Law Enforcement Street Survival"

(There used to be a great program called "Psychological Workshop" or "Transitional Workshop" that was really good")

Something along those lines.


I personally think it's getting a little over the top with cops wearing Molly gear/ plate carriers. I understand the need for SOME of it, but it's getting a little ridiculous if you ask me. SWAT, SRT, yes. But every day beat cops? Oh hell no!

You want to look like a soldier, the recruiting office is that way. --->

Now, I also understand the need to carry equipment, and where it's going to go.
Bulletproof vest, tazer, weapon, extra magazines, flash light, 2 pair of cuffs, first aid kit, batons/asp, mace....
It gets a little cumbersome, and you start running out of room with a 34" waist.

Well, you don’t deal with ieds using small arms and the training in question doesn’t involve counter-ied tactics.

As far as “terrorists” goes, does the label change the threat level? Or, does someone trying to kill you with small arms pose the same risk irrespective of what they are called even if we just call them “a youth trying to get their life on track.”

Holy hell was that article hard to read a second time!
Reeks of liberal, left wing nonsense.


The warrior style of policing teaches officers to adopt a mind-set that threats are ever present in their daily work. This school of training came under scrutiny in the Twin Cities after revelations that Jeronimo Yanez — the former St. Anthony officer who shot and killed Philando Castile during a routine traffic stop in 2016 — had taken a “Bulletproof Warrior” seminar. Nationally, police accountability advocates say the training breeds paranoia that increases the likelihood of officers using unnecessary force. “Chief Medaria Arradondo’s police department rests on trust, accountability and professional service,” Frey said. “Whereas fear-based, warrior-style trainings like killology are in direct conflict with everything that our chief and I stand for in our police department. Fear-based trainings violate the values at the very heart of community policing. When you’re conditioned to believe that every person encountered poses a threat to your existence, you simply cannot be expected to build out meaningful relationships with those same people.”



Yet no mention if good old Philando, The Gentile Giant Brown, et al... watched Chris Rocks "How not to get your ass kicked by the Police" video... Hmmm.


First off, "Police Accountability Experts"... most of them can choke on a dump truck full of syphilitic dick. I BEG them to come out on the street, I've offered multiple times and even went as far as to give them MY pay for the day to come out on the street and do what we do, deal with what we deal with for just one day. All have refused.

What the fuck is "Killology"? Can someone please explain this to me. Or is it just another word uses to strike fear in the hearts of sheeple that read and believe this shit? Wait, just the MSM putting their slant on things again. Did the Chief or Mayor even sit in on one of these classes, or just spewing off at the pie-hole about bullshit they have no clue about? And how is the training "Fear-Based"? Or a twist on the words "Raise Awareness"? I'm willing to bet that there are parts of Minneapolis/St Paul, probably around a "Martin Luther King" Street/Drive/Blvd where there are a bunch of people (or folks, for those that get the joke) that have no problems in killing someone, more or less the next officer that is pulling them over or stopping them.


..."Fear-based trainings violate the values at the very heart of community policing."...
Hey, Mayor, or anyone else, for that matter, care to talk about the "Values" and lack there of in some of those "Communities"? Let's start there! Maybe if we START with THAT conversation, the need for any of this training can be avoided?



I just was talking about "Line of Duty Deaths" today with a few of my bosses. So far, in 2019, "Gunfire" deaths have far surpassed "Traffic Related" deaths. 2018 wasn't much better when you crunch the numbers. HOPEFULLY the rest of the year, it's ZERO. But I know better.


What the public needs to fear, is when that number of "Traffic" related deaths surpasses the number of "Gunfire" deaths in the near future.
Why, you ask? Well, one of the reasons is, Officers may possibly be more reluctant to stop bad-guys.

Don't believe me? Well there's a term that's been going around for a while: "De-Policing"... and it's slowly happening. It's not that officers AREN'T doing their jobs.... Officers are ONLY doing their jobs.
"What happened? Ok, here's your report"
vs
"What happened? How long ago? Which way?, Get in the car, let's see if we can't find them! (Send me an assist unit, we're looking for...)"
And that is coming quickly to cities near you!

quote:

Don't believe me? Well there's a term that's been going around for a while: "De-Policing"... and it's slowly happening. It's not that officers AREN'T doing their jobs.... Officers are ONLY doing their jobs.
"What happened? Ok, here's your report"
vs
"What happened? How long ago? Which way?, Get in the car, let's see if we can't find them! (Send me an assist unit, we're looking for...)"
And that is coming quickly to cities near you!

This was happening at my department before I retired. About five or six years ago it really stepped up with the diversity recruitment, hiring people who couldn’t pass a background, people hired to run the non-profit the staff invented..and all the time screwing over the citizens by not being proactive or even investigating crime...like he said, here’s your report.

quote:

Originally posted by 4859:

quote:

Originally posted by flashguy:

I suspect there are a lot of big-city cops who would vociferously disagree with you, and probably some of the citizens they serve, too. There are parts of certain large cities that definitely would qualify as "war zones" as the probability of being shot in them exceeds that in Iraq or Afghanistan.

flashguy

Bull. They are not dealing with IED's and terrorists.

You've clearly never been to Detroit....

I suggest that all of these "experts" on how to police put on a uniform and go work the real streets (not their high end neighborhood) for 3-4 months to show how effective their new techniques are in the real world. My guess is they'll either be proven horribly wrong or killed in the attempt. Either way, problem solved.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeinNC:

This was happening at my department before I retired. About five or six years ago it really stepped up with the diversity recruitment, hiring people who couldn’t pass a background, people hired to run the non-profit the staff invented..and all the time screwing over the citizens by not being proactive or even investigating crime...like he said, here’s your report.

Mike, I think it's possible that your Department, mine, and a few others went to the same class for HR and how to hire people.

SHIT! Absolute SHIT! Is being recruited and "let on" the job now. A black/Hispanic trans-whatever that identifies as a tree will get a spot ahead of someone that actually scored high on the entrance exam, the physical fitness test and background investigation.

"Diversity" trumps "Quality" now, I guess.

...and the Police Union fights back...

http://www.startribune.com/min...yor-s-ban/509025622/

n open defiance of Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey, the union that represents the city’s roughly 900 rank-and-file police officers announced that it is partnering with a national police organization to offer free “warrior-style” training for any officer who wants it.

According to a news release posted to the website The Law Officer, the free online training — valued at $55,000 a year — is offered to officers for as long as Frey remains mayor. The training, which covers a range of issues, from “officer survival” and leadership to fitness and de-escalation, was designed to ensure that officers could “return home each day to their family regardless of the dangers that they may face and the ignorance of some politicians,” the release said.

The announcement comes in response to Frey’s ban of the popular training style, which he first revealed in his State of the City address last week. Frey said at the time that Minneapolis would become the first department in the country to eliminate “fear-based” training.

'Warrior Training' ....good grief. Once again, the liberals are inserting the language that they've created and used it as a catch-all label for something they neither understand nor, care to understand. The flip-side of course is IF, an officer has so immersed themself into direct-action tactics and completely walled-off the other aspects of being a police officer, then their value as a LEO is useless and thus becomes a liability. Law enforcement is tough and the need to balance direct action with soft engagement is paramount, unfortunately, the left is so consumed with purging what they don't care to know or, understand, that they're willing to sacrifice others on their alter of morality.

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:
'Warrior Training' ....good grief. Once again, the liberals are inserting the language that they've created and used it as a catch-all label for something they neither understand nor, care to understand. The flip-side of course is IF, an officer has so immersed themself into direct-action tactics and completely walled-off the other aspects of being a police officer, then their value as a LEO is useless and thus becomes a liability. Law enforcement is tough and the need to balance direct action with soft engagement is paramount, unfortunately, the left is so consumed with purging what they don't care to know or, understand, that they're willing to sacrifice others on their alter of morality.

Well it is either blame the Noor shooting on "warrior training" or admit that they hired, trained, and retained a fucking pussy who is afraid of a woman in pajamas standing outside his police car. Lets remember this asshat jerked a shot across his partner's body in the driver's seat and out the drivers window into the woman. The small space in cop cars now, I am truly amazed that the partner or mobile data terminal/computer/radio/ lights siren control box didn't catch the bullet.

All of the firearms and tactical training I have been through; Paul Howe, Larry Vickers, Pat MacNamara, South Narc, and Shiv Works have emphasized thinking, accessing, and then acting.

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin1069:
...and the Police Union fights back...

http://www.startribune.com/min...yor-s-ban/509025622/

n open defiance of Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey,...

I love it.



.