Especially curious what the LEO's on the board think about this. The mayor claims this type of training contributes to police paranoia and an itchy trigger finger.

http://www.startribune.com/min...DtUQO-tMQe4BYPVAr8-U

Minneapolis police officers will no longer be permitted to participate in "warrior"-style training, even on their own time.

To a roomful of applauding city leaders at Bio-Techne, a lab in northeast Minneapolis, Frey said he believes Minneapolis will be the first city to eliminate "fear-based training" in the country, and the new policy will take effect immediately.

Warrior training teaches officers to perceive threats all around them. This school of policing came under scrutiny in the Twin Cities after revelations that Jeronimo Yanez — the former St. Anthony officer who shot and killed Philando Castile during a routine traffic stop in 2016 — had taken classes on it. Nationally, critics say this school of policing creates a higher likelihood for an unnecessary use-of-force encounter with the public.

I think big cities that take this attitude are going to lose experienced cops. And I think the replacement they can find (which will be difficult) are going to get killed and injured in increasing numbers.

Great idea. Turn in your gun and baton, and that scary uniform. Toss the taser, cuffs, all that stuff. Issue a bicycle and flower basket, and maybe some spending cash for the perps you encounter. I see that working out very well.

This the product of some kind of pipe dream left over from the 60s flower power mind set. If it goes ito effect, I dont want to get trampled by the exodus of police leaving their job.

I would hope that their union could shove this into the Mayors butt crack. How can he say what a cop can do on his off time?
And MPD.... vote with your feet.
Stupidity.

PR stunt to appeal to a certain demographic

no more - no less

----------------------

Where in the hell did voters find that weenie?

This job is certainly in the crapper.

I’ve got people that work for me that NEED warrior training. Was pretty sure I was walking into an ambush the other night and I knew I was on my own with my particular set of circumstances.

And I’ve got ones that NEED verbal judo training.

Before Obama, it was fun. I doubt it’ll ever revert.

That pension though...just got to make 15 more years and not get fired...in a city ran by Democrats. We just had an officer involved shooting and everyone is up in arms. It’s getting old. Body cameras don’t help, even when it’s clearly justified.

Damned thing is we’re up to 40 murders and nobody batts an eye. One police shooting and the world is falling apart.

Wait until they have a school shooting. Then they'll bitch about the officers not being properly trained.

What profession would ever discourage continuing education. How can a mayor say an officer cannot attend a school on his own time. Hopefully, MPD has a strong union.

I would rather have the training and not need it than not have the training and wish I had been properly trained by my agency. The mayor evidently cares more about (his) image than having the city officers well trained for any situation.

No matter what happens, lawyers representing the "victim" of a LEO action will always spin it the other way.

It may be in conflict with what the state agency responsible for training/certification of officers requires of agencies. Most states have a required annual minimum standard for advanced training.

This has unfortunately been the way things are here for a while. I’ve been through the local regional academy here in NoVa twice due to a break in service and loss of my DCJS cert.

The first time around in 2006 it was paramilitary style with strict adherence to basic rules of discipline. Infractions were dealt with by getting smoked as a class and as the cycle progressed individual screw ups were taken to the sand pit. Defensive tactics pushed the warrior mentality, watching for pre-assaultive indicators and then responding in kind by “hitting them back first” or “shooting them back first”. Training focused identifying real threats and dealing with them proactively, not reactively. The class slogan was something like, “if they buy the ticket, give’m the full ride”.

The second time around in 2015 there was no discipline enforced by staff and the class reflected that. There was no punishment for rule breaking other than writing a memo. Crap like talking in classrooms was met with being asked to stop talking, again. The warrior mentality was verboten. Everything was the sanctity of life, verbal judo and CIT. I’m not saying those things don’t have merit and they were taught previously, just not so heavily. Training in the mat room was woefully watered down as well. Direct contact strikes were minimal and “aggressive” language was removed and chastised.

There are still intelligent recruits coming out of that academy but they are not as prepared as they should be. And add to the problem that it seems that most FTO programs do not allow trainees to fail, extensions, remedial and eventually moving to a different FTO that won’t be so detail oriented to allow completion of the program. This is the police that the current PC culture wants but for me and several other coworkers that’s not the kind of police we wanted to be so we hung it up.

Unless it’s written into the hiring paperwork, I don’t see how they can tell a cop what they can or cannot attend in their free time. Time to bail for another jurisdiction and leave Minneapolis to the wolves.

I know I'm going to regret this....

I'm not a fan of some of this style of training. Now this was 10+years back but, I went to several "Street Survival" type schools over the years.

Learning to have AWARENESS of your surroundings, thinking tactically, proper use of cover/concealment, etc. GREAT stuff.

But we did a few schools that were a bit over the top. Absolutely EVERY situation was to be handled as though you were in downtown Beirut. I passed those courses ,but let a lot of it slip away. We had several guys who really embraced that mind set. Constant letters from pissed off citizens were the result.

Some of the street survival training can be a little bit excessive, resulting in Officers who treat obviously benign citizens like active Terrorists.

My $ .02

I've got the feeling this was prompted not only by the Noor trial, but also one in Falcon Heights a few years ago. At the time, footage was shown of an instructor teaching the same private class that the officer had attended. That guy(instructor) was REALLY over the top. Unfortunately, political responses to such things are also REALLY over the top. It is stupid to ban all courses rather than have a list of approved courses that weed out the crazy.

Fuck it, I'll say it...

Cops are not warriors, unless they are military police. It's that simple. Cops are cops.

Cops don't need warrior training, they need realistic, specialized cop training. For example, Chongo, whose cred here is beyond reproach, said there are cops in his department who need training on how to sniff out an ambush.

Send them to a course that teaches how a cop does that, not some tacticool-ninna-level-tier-operator shit intended for soldiers in a war zone that is taught by a guy who learned his skills in the military in a war zone.

Such courses don't exist, you say? Jones, Chombo, Kevin... I see a business opportunity.

Develop COP-SPECIFIC TRAINING that goes beyond marksmanship and verbal judo. Training that makes them efficient, safe and legally savvy cops.

quote:

Originally posted by MNSIG:
I've got the feeling this was prompted not only by the Noor trial, but also one in Falcon Heights a few years ago. At the time, footage was shown of an instructor teaching the same private class that the officer had attended. That guy(instructor) was REALLY over the top. Unfortunately, political responses to such things are also REALLY over the top. It is stupid to ban all courses rather than have a list of approved courses that weed out the crazy.

Agreed 100%, I feel this is a knew jerk reaction on the part of Frey based on what has been reported on with the Noor trial, specifically Noor reacting to the "thud" on the squad. I have wanted to comment on the other thread (and still will) about living in the Minneapolis area but I feel Frey and Carter, the mayor of St. Paul are on a mission to try and make each city a Midwest socialist wet dream as they want to be like California or New York. I only envision more BS that will hamstring their respective PD's to come.

Am I missing something? I didn't know police were supposed to be warriors. Enhanced or advanced officer survival and situational awareness training (beyond, I assume, what is given in the academy) is not training for war. Why is it being called this? Call it something else, hell, Special High Intensity Training for all I care.

Been in this game for a while now. Have never even heard of “warrior” training.
I have had lots and lots of training in perceiving and understanding threats never was it called warrior training.
Silly name if you ask me.

Pittsburgh is doing something similar, albeit the legal route.

As an aside, this involved a local shooting, who has since disbanded it's police department and relies on the State Police to cover the territory. Pittsburgh mayor Peduto just signed an unconstitutional law against certain firearms and magazine capacity as well, but it is not aimed at ownership, but rather use and carry.

https://triblive.com/news/penn...on-police-shootings/



HARRISBURG — A group of Democrats in the General Assembly said Tuesday shootings by police show the need to change the rules for when Pennsylvania officers can use deadly force and to reform their oversight and training.
Members of the Legislative Black Caucus outlined a legislative agenda that would also include appointing special prosecutors to investigate police shootings. Another proposal would limit the power of arbitrators in police discipline matters.
Several spoke of concerns about the fatal shooting last year of an unarmed black teen by a white police officer who was subsequently acquitted of homicide.
A lawyer for the family of Antwon Rose II, who was shot in the back as he ran from an officer, has attributed the verdict to Pennsylvania’s law on the use of force by police, a law he believes is unconstitutional.
The use of force legislation, said Rep. Summer Lee, D-Allegheny, will require de-escalation and nonlethal force options before lethal force is allowed when making an arrest. Lethal force could only be justified to prevent imminent threat to life.
The proposals are being drafted and could face tough questions in the Republican-controlled Legislature.
House Republican caucus spokesman Mike Straub said police or elected officials who abuse power or commit crimes should be held accountable.
“Our members are willing to engage in worthy discussions over how those who abuse power are held accountable, but not at the expense of unfairly burdening the men and women who are willing to make their own sacrifices to keep us safe,” Straub said.
Officer Michael Rosfeld had pulled over the vehicle in which Rose was a passenger because he correctly believed it may have been involved in a drive-by shooting nearby.
Rosfeld defense attorney Patrick Thomassey considered the state’s lethal force law the key to the case.
“We have to give the police the right to shoot people, we need to do that,” Thomassey said. “And there are certain circumstances where they’re justified in doing that.”
Lindsay Vaughan, executive director of the Pennsylvania District Attorneys Association, said Pennsylvania law on the use of deadly force by police meets state and federal constitutional requirements, and like most other states requires a reasonable belief in the possibility of death or serious bodily injury.
“Pennsylvania’s use of force laws strike the necessary and appropriate balance between the constitutional rights of every person and the very real need of law enforcement to protect the community, as well as themselves and their fellow officers when in the line of duty,” Vaughan said.
Pennsylvania law says police may also use deadly force if they reasonably believe it will prevent a suspect from resisting or escaping arrest and that the suspect has committed or tried to commit a “forcible felony” or has a deadly weapon and is trying to escape.
Police and correctional officers may use deadly force to prevent a prisoner from escaping, if they have the same concerns about possible death or bodily harm to themselves or others. They can also use deadly force if it would be required “to prevent the apprehension from being defeated by resistance” and if the escapee has been convicted of a forcible felony or has a deadly weapon.
Deadly force can only be used to prevent suicide or the commission of a crime, under Pennsylvania law, if an officer thinks there’s a “substantial risk” a suspect will harm or kill someone and the use of force does not put third parties at risk. Deadly force can also be deployed under those circumstances if an officer thinks it’s needed to suppress a riot or mutiny, and rioters or mutineers have been told to disperse and warned force will be used if they do not.
Pennsylvania Superior Court in 1990 interpreted the law to say “the statute is not to be read to allow deadly force to be used against a person who poses no threat to human life or safety.”

This also means (if they haven't already done it) that they won't be hiring anyone with military experience. There were a few departments (most were on the loony left coast) post Ferguson already saying they wouldn't hire anyone with prior military experience.