quote:

Originally posted by kkina:
Something like that. Lee was killed by a squib round, created by the prop crew foolishly manufacturing their own dummy cartridges from live rounds for a previous scene that showed the gun being loaded. They just pulled the bullet, dumped the propellant charge, and reinstalled the bullet, leaving the live primer. Subsequently the hammer was dropped on one of these rounds, with the primer charge being just strong enough to lodge the bullet into the barrel. No-one had the foresight to pull the squib.

In the final scene, the gun was loaded with .44 Magnum blanks, i.e. full power cartridges with primer, propellant, but no bullet. As soon as the gun was discharged at Lee, the squib became for all intents and purposes a nearly full power Magnum round, striking him in the abdomen and subsequently killing him.

Strange as it is, I remember when Hexum and Lee were both killed. In Lee's case, they should have pulled the powder AND the primer. Actually they should have got an armorer who knew what the heck they were doing instead of just winging it. But even making the mistakes they did, I'm surprised they actually pointed the gun at the actor when it was loaded with the blanks. I thought that was a strict no-no to do in the movies or tv. War re-enactors are told not to do that for sure. I would think you would always point slightly off to the side, and with the right camera angles, the audience wouldn't know the difference.

I read that the safety precautions differ from production to production, and from actor to actor.

Kirk Douglas in his autobiography "Ragman's Son" tells the story of a fight he had with the director during the filming of "Detective Story." The original scene, according to Douglas, would have Douglas's character, a police detective, and Joseph Wiseman's character, a criminal struggle over a pistol. Wiseman is supposed to catch the pistol in mid-air and pull the trigger with the gun pointed slightly away from Douglas, with Douglas's character getting "shot." The guns was supposed to be loaded with blanks.

Douglas did not think it was safe and argued for a different action in the scene. He said something like, "Wiseman is such an expert with guns that he's going to catch a gun in mid-air, pull the trigger and miss my face? I won't do it!"

Douglas got his way, and the scene was shot differently. Douglas said, and I agree, the scene that ultimately ended up in the movie plays a lot better than what was originally envisioned.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
Heck, I can simulate recoil with a finger gun; why can't they?

A great deal of skill, with very precise timing, is required. Your finger can't kick upward before your thumb has fallen.

The cost of using blanks on a film set can be prohibitive to all but the big budget movies. There's an insurance risk, and specialized prop companies are typically brought in to handle the firearms. Recall that California, where many movies are made, is not a firearm friendly state. Recall also that a blank firing replica may be classified as a firearm in some places, and that movies and shows are often filmed in places where gun laws are even more draconian.

Many TV productions use completely inert replica weapons that are incapable of firing anything, even blanks. The actor instead mimes the recoil and a small muzzle flash is rendered by computer on the gun. Watch, for example, episodes of the Walking Dead, and you will see that the slide does not cycle when the gun is "firing"

There are so many gun foux pas in movies today, I hardly notice the no recoil deal. Tea cupping, thumbing back the hammer on a 1911, shooting 50+ rounds without reloading and so many more. Why they don't pay a couple hundred bucks to have a gun guy correct their errors is beyond me.

I watched a cheesy popcorn action flick where the hero's car was peppered with full-auto fire and sparks flew off the car everywhere it was hit, even off the windshield. I wasn't expecting much, but this was ridiculous.

Last year I had the good fortune to take a tour of Independant Studio Service which is one of the largest prop houses in LA and they specialize in firearms. They have certain licensing that allows them to produce firearms for movies.

Among the nearly 20k guns or so, I saw things being made for TV shows, pilot shows, codenamed shows and of course there is a rich history in their inventory. The produced the Bradley Cooper rife for American Sniper and while I could look at it, it was in the No Touch zone. They furnished almost every gun for the Pirates of the Carribean series of movies, there where Tom Cruise guns that I got to play with and they have a huge inventory of things all kind of things, including .50 Cal from WWII ships, functioning Gaitling guns and all kinds of stuff that will take you back in time. Too much stuff to remember.

But they also make their own prop ammo and that's due to Bruce Lee incident and there was another one I can't remember.

From a short distance the ammo looks like regular ammo but once you pick up a round, it's not the same.

The primary difference is that the "primer" is not a primer but a brass machined insert. You can see the turn marks and that's on purpose so that you won't confuse them for a real round. There were other things but made this inert but the primer was the #1 thing. Very high quality stuff.

Anyway, here is a a link to the weapons vid on their site to wet your appetite.

Independent Studio Services