quote:

Originally posted by qxsoup:
He is bored. I had the exact same problem in elementary school as well. He needs to be able to learn at his level, not the level of the class. Have you thought about moving him up a grade?

I was the same way as well. My father whipped my ass every report card without making a difference in anything but the scar load on my buttocks. They had me tested and apparently I stopped during the test, pulled a toy out and began playing with the toy. The score up to the point where I stopped to play scored me at 128 for an unfinished test. I actually remember the testing. I continued the same pattern until I had classes that interested me and challenged me, the rest I did poorly in throughout high school. After I left the Army, I went I to LE and then college. Wouldn’t you know it, I did well when I was paying for it and interested. If I’d finished that test I’d have been in more challenging classes.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
I used to tutor kids in math. I worked with a dyslexic kid, and we figured out that if he did his math homework on 1/4" square graph paper and wrote one number in each square, he was able to conquer the dyslexia for math.

This helped me as well.

And nine times out of ten, asswhipings and punishments over stuff like this is wholly unnecessary, ineffective, and in the best possible case is simply a waste of time and effort.

My son sounds a lot like yours. He’s in 6th grade. Private Catholic school. Advanced math. Reads at a 10-11 th grade level. Organically, one of the smartest kids in his class probably. Grossly underperforms. Blows up his scores with 40% averages in homework. The only thing I have found success with is putting him on a point system this year. He has really responded as he cares about earning enough points to get video game time...some of which is spent playing together with me. He has improved a lot but don’t have much translation to his moms house. She is at odds on nearly every subject with me ... so that’s an issue we just have work around and live with sadly.

Keep us posted.

quote:

...actively reading 3 grade levels ahead and is very social and masters subjects that appeal to him, like comic book worlds,

Maybe you can channel the interests into more productive versions of the existing interests?
For example, ancient world history is often more bizarre than any comic book world, and it really happened!
Or, does he have anything like a musical instrument or sport that can both occupy time constructively and serve as a springboard for wanting to understand the technical issues, involving math or physics ?

I'm going to go against the grain here and say, even if it's boredom, so what? The issue as described appears to be lack of focus, which is a skill that must be developed as any other.

Most of you may have been blessed in life never to be confronted with a job or tasks that bored you, but nonetheless must get done. Or that you were able to skip such a job or task. But I haven't been -- listening to static for hours on end is boring, but the off chance that a distress signal or even a routine message may come across requires one to stay focused. This was my training as a USCG radioman, back in the day when we still monitored the CW channels. And I'm sure anyone who has served in any branch has had similar instances where you were bored silly, but still had to retain focus.

So to merely dismiss the issue to boredom does a disservice. It may be an element and could be addressed (but OP stated a rural district (like the one I went to) that may not have resources). But the core issue of focus must be addressed, whether b/c of ADHD or other clinical issues or just the fact that shit can be boring, but you gotta focus.

Way back in the dark ages, early 1960s, I worked at Bell Labs. We had a volunteer tutor program, sort of Big Brother-ish, in partnership with local NAACP.

I was assigned a kid with street smarts, but resistant to school work, he saw no practical use for it, especially the math that I was working with him.

I got his mother's approval and took him flying with me. He really liked it and decided that he was going to be a pilot.

We started working with applied math for aviation. Navigation exercises, fuel burn, etc. He really tore into that stuff and his attention to school work improved dramatically.

quote:

Originally posted by Holger Danske:
I'm going to go against the grain here and say, even if it's boredom, so what? The issue as described appears to be lack of focus, which is a skill that must be developed as any other.

Most of you may have been blessed in life never to be confronted with a job or tasks that bored you, but nonetheless must get done. Or that you were able to skip such a job or task. But I haven't been -- listening to static for hours on end is boring, but the off chance that a distress signal or even a routine message may come across requires one to stay focused. This was my training as a USCG radioman, back in the day when we still monitored the CW channels. And I'm sure anyone who has served in any branch has had similar instances where you were bored silly, but still had to retain focus.

So to merely dismiss the issue to boredom does a disservice. It may be an element and could be addressed (but OP stated a rural district (like the one I went to) that may not have resources). But the core issue of focus must be addressed, whether b/c of ADHD or other clinical issues or just the fact that shit can be boring, but you gotta focus.

This is certainly a valid point.

The ability to both focus on and successfully complete painfully boring and unchallenging tasks is a vital life skill, and it's definitely possible this is the problem the OP's son faces.

It's also true that many schools are so far down that hole and in so many ways that it goes well beyond what a normal need would be. It will be important to discern which one is happening here or whether or not it's something else entirely.

But Holger Danske is wise to bring up this point.

I'm going to agree with previous posts in that I think the most likely issue is pure boredom. He probably grasps the concepts and just can't - or won't - buckle down to the mind numbing application of working problems. I had to fight that myself, but was pretty successful.

When it came to diagramming sentences, though, I just wanted to scream. Useless, make-do, work for me.

Though it doesn't sound like your son's issue, I will note that my ADHD daughter did much better at math - particularly long division - after I started her using graphing paper. I think this is a great tool for kids whose work wanders all over the paper.

My 12 yo kid has the same issues. I think part of it is laziness/ lack of focus (attention deficit), but with similar characteristics. If you ever want to talk, my wife is a teacher, and I'm in town - about 6 miles away. My contact info is in the profile.

A psychological evaluation by a clinical psychologist would be a good choice. A proper evaluation would include assessment of intellectual functioning and personality organization. You can then proceed with an appropriate course of action. Other than that you are basically just shooting in the dark.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
A psychological evaluation by a clinical psychologist would be a good choice. A proper evaluation would include assessment of intellectual functioning and personality organization. You can then proceed with an appropriate course of action. Other than that you are basically just shooting in the dark.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^100% agree. On this entire forum, is anyone really qualified to say what your son needs? There maybe someone here, but there needs to be a professional assessment done to know for sure. Both my wife and I work in the education system. See a professional so there is path to take to get him back on track.

This. have him tested by a psychologist. My youngest was having trouble in school and the psychologist identified ADD as the problem. A low dose of meds turned her school work completely around.

I was very similar to your son. Very intelligent and creative but really struggled in school, particularly with Math. Mostly attention to detail, some of it was just getting bored with the repetition. Some of it was that I thought so fast, and moved so quick I was well ahead of everyone and then start doodling, goofing, etc.

I was diagnosed with ADD and the shoved Ritalin down my throat. It turned me into zombie, which is what the schools wanted, quiet kids. My parents couldn't take it and pulled me off of it.

Eventually I did fine, I just needed to learn how to focus in short spurts. I still suck at math but I'm also an engineer

quote:

Originally posted by Tejas421:
This. have him tested by a psychologist. My youngest was having trouble in school and the psychologist identified ADD as the problem. A low dose of meds turned her school work completely around.

This is what I would do. If he tests normal you've at least eliminated something.

I've read all the responses. A lot to ponder. I will talk to my ex-wife about getting him assessed, that is something I had not really considered.

It's just agonizing to know that he is limiting his potential to do the great things he wants to do by setting himself up to fail. It makes me feel like I (and his mom) are the ones setting him up to fail, because it's our responsibility to do what is best for him, and we're not.

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Originally posted by 46and2:
And nine times out of ten, asswhipings and punishments over stuff like this is wholly unnecessary, ineffective, and in the best possible case is simply a waste of time and effort.

Yeah, just seemed to work every time around here. I guess we're lucky. Did the 1 week, 2 week, 1 month escalation before it never happened again.

There typically is some sort of root cause (unorganized, pissed mom & dad are divorced, etc) but without some sort of repercussions, it's pretty much worthless long term.

I would tell my son when he pulled the same shit that there are a boatload of 'smart' people out there who fucked away school then are pissed they can't move forward. I'd give him real life examples of family members who have all sorts of talent yet do nothing with it, then complain life sucks.

This world is full of people with limitless potential and zero motivation. Most of those people dig the ditches, flip the burgers, change the oil, collect welfare / unemployment, or work other dead-end jobs they hate.

My first born has a full ride to the college of his choice and did his first year of college while still in high school, but maybe I screwed it away somehow...?

quote:

It's just agonizing to know that he is limiting his potential to do the great things he wants to do by setting himself up to fail

This presumes it's a choice and that there's no legitimate issue that may be a/the root cause.

It's also an exceptionally common mantra of parents of kids with legit problems who don't (yet) believe or understand there's a real problem, which isn't a criticism of chongo or his ex, and in the end you two *might* be right - maybe he's just lazy or has comics on the brain or is somehow distracted in a way that can be fixed by normal parenting stuff, but please at least take the adequate steps to get professional help in determining whether it's a choice or a parenting issue or whether it's actually something else, before thinking and talking and acting like he's just not doing what he's supposed to do or is making bad choices.

Also, frankly, I'd seek two opinions from two professionals who don't work together. These sorts of problems, if such a thing is what's affecting your son, well - these problems are fairly nebulous, and can be difficult to accurately diagnose in an hour or three... Hell, even if they say he's fine now, if such things persist please get him tested again later, rather than assume he's fine and just acting up, etc.

fwiw: adderall changed my life, significantly, positively, and my only regret is not getting that sort of help sooner. I was tested as a child and they thought I was fine. Then I spent years hearing crap like "you're so smart, why don't you apply yourself, etc.". Later when I was retested a number of years had passed, the methods were better, and they said things like: "I'm so sorry we missed it before, you could have and should have benefitted all along." I've never been hyper, never a spaz, never acted up in those ways at all, yet I'm as ADD as it gets. My mind is always racing, I'm always thinking, thinking, thinking. I needed help with ignoring the "noise", so to speak. And the smarter someone is, the more such stuff happens.

An extra $1000 in tests, years earlier, would have saved me so much hassle in my early years, and would have shunted so much drama with my parents while growing up. I turned out fine, of course, but the assumption that I didn't need help was brutal, for years. My parents felt terribly guilty for years after, too, which was also unnecessary/avoidable.

Best of luck. I hope they're fine, no matter the outcome.

quote:

Originally posted by chongosuerte:

He tested three grade levels behind on math. There is a significant deficiency there. But it’s his lack of attention to detail that leads to all of this.

It is very difficult to pay attention to detail if you don't understand it.
I struggled all my life with math. To this day I just don't get it. I took extra classes in community college to learn the math I needed for my apprenticeship. And I just barely passed any of them. Some classes I had to take 2 or 3 times to get by.
Beating his ass will NOT help if he truly does not comprehend it.
Not everybody can do everything.

Talk to him, not at him. He doesn't need a lecture, he needs a father. I'm learning this myself. We all have free will, what he needs to understand is how to exercise that will in a positive manner. I allow video games and electronics until they become such a distraction that chores, school, or just plain attention span become a problem(If it gets to that point I am the problem, not my kids). We need to have an active role and interest, as well as be aware of distractions and obsessions. Rule #1 is teach him that struggling is not failure until you stop trying. Rule #2 is when struggling ask for help(NEVER be afraid to ask for help). Use skype or facetime to connect with him and help when you can. Nobody is perfect but we can always try harder than yesterday.