I'm convinced I saw one of these flying out of Lambert some months back. It had another plane flying with it, taking off fast and climbing fast, and it struck me enough that I asked the guy riding with me what it was as I had never seen anything like it.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeNH:
Has Boeing ever even built a fighter? Everything they have to their name now comes from them buying out McDonnell-Douglas.

I believe that Boeing built the first ever stealth prototype. I think they were the pioneer in that stealth concept.

Lockheed "Have Blue".

quote:

Originally posted by arabiancowboy:
You might be surprised how much more expensive unmanned is than manned when factoring in encrypted datalink from the other side of the world. The cost per hour flying an MQ9 exceeds that of similarly capable manned aircraft by 10 to 1.

Does that include the expense of training the pilot?

I wonder if the cost of that encrypted data link for UAV’s will decrease by a factor of 10 using StarLink LEO satellites with laser comms?

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

quote:

Originally posted by arabiancowboy:
You might be surprised how much more expensive unmanned is than manned when factoring in encrypted datalink from the other side of the world. The cost per hour flying an MQ9 exceeds that of similarly capable manned aircraft by 10 to 1.

Does that include the expense of training the pilot?

I expect a dedicated UAV fighter would be superior once you eliminate the human "limitations" of G-force and response time out of the equation. At least that has been the premise of several movies................

quote:

Originally posted by sgalczyn:

I expect a dedicated UAV fighter would be superior once you eliminate the human "limitations" of G-force and response time out of the equation. At least that has been the premise of several movies................

I don’t think G-force has been the limitation for dozens of years. A missile can be way more maneuverable than any fighter, removing the fleshy bit inside doesn’t fix that.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

quote:

Originally posted by arabiancowboy:
You might be surprised how much more expensive unmanned is than manned when factoring in encrypted datalink from the other side of the world. The cost per hour flying an MQ9 exceeds that of similarly capable manned aircraft by 10 to 1.

Does that include the expense of training the pilot?

Yes.

And clarity on my original remarks: a lot of cost is negated if you’re flying unmanned aircraft via line of sight link, which they do (or did, there was new capability emerging when I retired) for takeoff and landing. Although those satellites and stations are still incurring cost even if not used. It’s also not a perfect analogy to say “similarly capable manned aircraft” since those manned aircraft with similar mission capabilities can’t stay aloft for 10+ hours. There’s a lot of nuance. However, in 100% of analysis I saw the unmanned was more expensive (up to 10:1) than manned. Always.

There’s great capacity in various drones and I’m a fan of exploring their tactical uses. Some are low cost. Anything high altitude and controlled via satellite data link is extremely high cost.

It's not impossible that this was awarded to Boeing so that Boeing will continue to exist.

Of the three major aircraft manufacturers:
Lockheed is tied-up with F-35 program, they also are one of the leads for the stealth-tanker aircraft program.
Northrop-Grumman is consumed with the B-21 Raider program making sure that delivers, along with being in the running for the Navy's NGAD program the F/A-XX.
Boeing, they're rolling-out the latest version of the F-15, continuing to deliver the P-8 and pushing out faulty KC-46's

I'm very interested in seeing how the latest generation of engine technology functions and performs as the Next Generation Adaptive Propulsion designs and technology comes alive. This would be a major leap ahead and usher in a new wave of aircraft engines.

As for this aircraft being manned or, unmanned, the actually piloting may be all or, near autonomous and the human sitting inside is a weapons system officer or, battle manager.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: corsair, March 26, 2025 12:19 AM

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
Surprising that Boeing won this given how they’ve had a rough past few years with all their aircraft and spacecraft issues.

I’m sure Lockheed Martin isn’t happy

Here's what I learned from an instructor who was involved in government contracts and specifications.

He quipped, "You would find it interesting that for big government defense contract bids, there is only one company at a time that is the lowest and everybody else is way higher. What's also interesting is that it seems the company that manages to get the lowest bid seems to rotate among the different companies in the industry but each one gets to take their turn coincidentally."

I had no reason to doubt the instructor so I didn't fact check him. It seemed reasonable.
everyone just takes turns milking the golden goose.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeNH:
Has Boeing ever even built a fighter? Everything they have to their name now comes from them buying out McDonnell-Douglas.

P-12 or F4B



And the P-26



Of course, those are from a few years ago…

Bill R

This message has been edited. Last edited by: stylophiles, March 22, 2025 01:50 PM

quote:

Originally posted by shikemd:
It's not impossible that this was awarded to Boeing so that Boeing will continue to exist.

Now you are thinking!

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:

X-32 flying prototype for the JSF program.

Hands down the ugliest jet in the past 30 years.

https://www.twz.com/44157/test...what-became-the-f-35

I can only hope that given MD-Boeing's recent history of "successes" like the KC-46 and upcoming and already overbudget and delayed VC-25B, they have strict budget and production limits in place.

I am hopeful that the FA-18 replacement will be built by Northrop Grumman. They seem to be doing well on the B-21 schedule/budget, and it would be nice to see another Grumman Naval Fighter rule the skies again.

And, for whatever reasons, Boeing can't deliver the next Air Force One.