quote:

Neely said “someone is going to die today” and he was “ready to go to Rikers” prison.

And that right there is intent. Clearly expressed and reinforced by his actions. This isn't just a case of self-defense...it's heroic defense of every single innocent person on that train car.

Daniel Penny isn't a cop. He was unarmed, and didn't have handcuffs or other means of restraining this guy or taking him into custody. He did what he had to do to subdue a violent combative person who was threatening everyone on that train, and held him until police got there. I don't see what he could have done any differently. Fighting a violent person isn't a game, and if you let up before they're properly restrained there's always the chance that they'll flip the tables on you. And the consequences of that are often fatal.

If this activist politician posing as a prosecutor had been on that train, I'm sure he would have cowered in the corner while the suspect brutalized innocent people. There's something wrong with a system that lets people like that prey on a guy like Daniel Penny.

quote:

This isn't just a case of self-defense...it's heroic defense of every single innocent person on that train car.

Well said. Enough of this shit is enough. Why does everyone stand back and cower? They don't want to end up like this kid or Mr. Rittenour. They know if they can't handle this guy alone, and you never know what's going to happen, there will most likely be no help at all from bystanders.

If someone had come over and kicked the M-er F-er in the nuts a few times, then he may become compliant enough so that he didn't need to be choked so much.

This shit gets me Po'd and I over simplified above. Bottom line, he had no help and did the best he could with, what he had to work with. Tip of the hat for doing the right thing or at least trying to! He should be released and lawyer-ed up to pursue a law suit.

The strongest argument the prosecution has is that he held the chokehold for eight minutes. The "rear naked choke" clamps off the carotid artery, and the jugular vein. In other words it completely closes off blood flow to the brain. It doesn't take long, often less than a minute, for the hold to take effect and cause unconsciousness. The person goes limp.

If he didn't have experience using the hold, he might not have realized that the guy was out cold.

Since he still had a heartbeat and was breathing, it should not matter that he held the hold way too long.

But he's not being tried as the protective man that he was. He is being tried, and might be found guilty, of being a white man.

Are these state charges or federal charges against him?

Subway rider thanked Daniel Penny for saving riders from Jordan Neely — possibly the most important gesture of his life

https://nypost.com/2024/11/08/...s-from-jordan-neely/

She said “thank you.”

A simple gesture, a short phrase.

That Alethea Gittings said it to Daniel Penny on May 1, 2023, meant a helluva lot. Perhaps the most important thank you of the 26-year-old’s life — at least from my vantage point on day four of Penny’s turbulent manslaughter trial.

Gittings was on that Uptown F train back when Jordan Neely, a homeless man with mental health and substance abuse issues, boarded her car and launched into a rage, spitting threats.

She saw the events that unfolded, landing Penny in a courtroom fighting for his freedom. And in that harrowing chaos of that terrible day, she felt gratitude toward the Marine veteran – and even stuck around to tell him.

“I came back to thank Mr. Penny,” she testified, speaking in a strong but warm manner.

Because on that train, Gittings was “was scared s–tless” when Neely boarded.

Initially, she couldn’t see him but she could hear him, alright. She recalled him screaming, “I don’t give a damn. I will kill a motherf—-r. I’m ready to die.”

She then heard the thud of Penny taking down Neely, putting him in the chokehold that prosecutors say cost the troubled former Michael Jackson impersonator, who had a history of violent crime, his life.

The stylish mother of two, told the jury that she’s ridden the subway for over 50 years. In that half a century, she’s been “sexually accosted.” She’s been harassed by people getting in her face, “giving me a bunch of rhetoric.

“I told them to go away. The others made me angry. This,” she said of Neely’s outburst, “scared me.”

Those words, carefully annunciated, bounced around the room. Obviously, Gittings is not one to back down. To be intimidated. She’s no easy mark. But that day she needed a hero, a defender. The entire subway car did.

Her thank you led to a simple ask from Penny. Since she was there, could she speak to police?

Gittings, who was originally headed to a dental appointment, said, “of course.”

When defense attorney Thomas Kenniff asked if Penny – now facing up to 15 years on a second degree manslaughter charge – told her what to say to the police, she responded, “never.”

Kenniff asked if it looked like “Danny was squeezing his neck.” She replied no.

She said Neely put up a struggle, until he didn’t anymore. She said that he didn’t look unconscious. “More like he was spent.” When they put him on the gurney, she “saw him move a little.”

Another witness Dan Couvreur testified he was “terrified” that day and Neely did not easily submit to Penny’s hold.

“No it was very much a struggle. I didn’t think [Penny] had control,” he said.

Another straphanger, Lori Sitro, recalled barricading her 5-year-old son behind his stroller. She said Neely was lunging at people, “shouting in their faces.”

Sitro and Couvreur testified they didn’t hear Neely gasping for breath or saying he couldn’t breathe. Both said they were shocked to learn of Neely’s death.

But in New York City, where violent lunatics have been given free rein, those brave enough to become helpers shouldn’t be prosecuted.

They should be thanked. Just like Alathea Gittings did that day.

This just keeps getting crazier:

quote:

Man who helped Daniel Penny restrain Jordan Neely testifies he lied to the DA's office

By Kyle Schnitzer and Priscilla DeGregory
NY Post
11-12-2024

Eric Gonzalez, a straphanger helped Daniel Penny restrain Jordan Neely, admitted from the witness stand to lying when he was initially interviewed by the Manhattan District Attorney's Office as a suspect in the troubled homeless man's death.

Gonzalez, scared he'd get "pinned for" the murder, said he fibbed to DA investigators, falsely claiming that he arrived on the scene earlier than he actually did and telling authorities that Neely had hit him, prompting Penny to act.

The Bronx man -- who eventually entered into a non-prosecution agreement with the DA's Office -- said he told the lies in an attempt at "justifying my actions."

Earlier Tuesday, Gonzalez told jurors that Penny already had a hold of Neely when he got there.

Trial testimony indicates that Neely went on a verbal rant, but no one has ever testified that he touched anyone before Penny took him down.

Link

Long article so I am just pasting some excerpts I thought was interesting.


The truth about Daniel Penny's chokehold trial that brainwashed liberals will refuse to believe

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/ne...AUREEN-CALLAHAN.html

All brought to us by feckless DA Alvin Bragg, a Democrat who has reduced violent crimes from felonies to misdemeanors, and who somehow saw President Donald Trump's hush-money payments to a porn star worthy of prosecution.

Bragg has racialized the criminal justice system in New York — a city like no other, in which people of every imaginable race, creed, color and socioeconomic class interact daily. As they did in that very subway car. It's a multiracial witness list, and what isn't in doubt is that Jordan Neely scared commuters who thought they'd seen everything.

Q: 'Did it appear to you that the white man was squeezing the black man's neck?'

Sanchez: 'No. He was trying to protect other people so that [Neely] wouldn't put [his] hands on nobody.'

Neely had a long history of assaulting strangers on the street and in the subway — including breaking the nose and orbital bone of a 68-year-old woman.

In fact, Neely had more arrests than birthdays: 44 by age 30, including for indecent exposure.

He was on the city's 'Top 50' list of homeless people in dire need of help and, in 2015, was arrested for attempting to kidnap a 7-year-old girl. Neely was reportedly seen dragging the child down a street.

Naturally, Al Sharpton, New York City's original race-baiter, eulogized Neely.

'We can't live in a city,' Sharpton said, 'where you can choke me to death with no provocation, no weapon, no threat.'

But for Sharpton and compatriot Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, who positioned herself front row at Neely's funeral, violent crime is so often adjudged solely through race.

'Jordan Neely was murdered,' AOC posted on X, two days after his death. 'The murderer gets protected [with] passive headlines [and] no charges. It's disgusting.'

Even Mayor Eric Adams, himself a former police officer, implied that Penny should likely not be charged with a crime.

'Any loss of life is tragic,' Adams said in the immediate aftermath. 'However, we do know there were serious mental health issues in play here.'

As were drug issues and, according to Neely's aunt, a diagnosis of schizophrenia. The autopsy showed Neely was high on K2, a powerful synthetic cannabinoid that can cause paranoia, hallucinations and cardiac arrest.

New York City's medical examiner has refused to say how much K2 was in Neely's system at time of death. Seems relevant to me.

The Prosecution during their examinations & questioning, continue to refer to Penny as 'the white man' however, when referring to Neely, it's 'Mr Neely'....shouldn't the judge have a little discussion with the city attorney's about decorum or, drag the DA over and have a heart-to-heart in his chambers?

quote:

The autopsy showed Neely was high on K2

Well in addition to the events leading up to and during the restraint, this is another critical piece of information.

I've seen people do crazy stuff on Spice/K2. I think I've shared on here before about the "zombie" who bit his girlfriend, kicked a cop in the nuts, ran, and then got apprehended by a K9 only to almost die in the ambulance after his heart rate spiked to almost 300 and then crashed.

That stuff produces some crazy physiological effects, and if you put it into your body and then go pick fights on the subway the outcome isn't going to be good. And it's also entirely your own fault. Play stupid games win stupid prizes.

Medical Examiner Makes Stunning Admission During Daniel Penny Trial
Mia Cathell | November 18, 2024 12:15 PM

The medical examiner who deemed Jordan Neely's death was a homicide caused by Daniel Penny placing him in a chokehold made a stunning admission on the witness stand Friday: she didn't wait for the toxicology report; the viral video alone of Penny subduing Neely on the New York City subway was what convinced her that Penny killed Neely.

"No toxicological result imaginable was going to change my opinion," the prosecution's last witness, Dr. Cynthia Harris of the New York City Medical Examiner's Office, testified during Penny's trial, per NBC News reporters present in the courtroom.

So, the forensic pathologist based the autopsy report, in part, off of the footage itself of the fatal encounter, which Harris said she saw was clear-cut evidence ruling out that Neely had died of a drug overdose.

"After watching it, I had no further questions as to why he was dead," Harris said.

Penny's defense attorneys questioned Harris about her initially writing "inconclusive" for the cause of death on Neely's death certificate. One day after Neely's death, the finding on May 2, 2023, said "pending further study." The doctor said she eventually decided on asphyxiation, consistent with compression of the neck, upon reviewing the video in question depicting Neely "dying."
Hence, Harris reached her conclusion before she ever received Neely's toxicology report.

The toxicology report ultimately revealed that Neely, who had a history of abusing the drug K2, which made him paranoid and prone to violent outbursts, had synthetic substances in his system at the time that he died. "Two to 100 times more potent to standard, natural occurring cannabinoids," K2 is classified as a stimulant similar to the potency of cocaine, Harris remarked.
"We found in the blood a synthetic cannabinoid, a relatively new drug in the scheme of drugs," she said. "They're synthetic and more potent than marijuana. In a class of drugs, they fall under the category of stimulants. They rev the body up, fall into the same class of drugs as, say, cocaine."

Either way, Harris said that she would have found that the chokehold caused Neely's death even if he had enough drugs in his body to "put down an elephant."

"I based my decision on the autopsy findings coupled with the video," she said, according to Fox News. "I didn't wait for toxicology, because no toxicological report would change my opinion. He could have come back with enough fentanyl to kill an elephant and walked onto the train and got put in a chokehold, and that's how he died."

According to case notes introduced into evidence, at first, Neely's death was suspected to be due to cardiac arrest, and he had "no visible trauma." Harris acknowledged that the drugs in Neely's body "would not help the heart" during such a struggle.
Nonetheless, the clip of the chokehold, showing Neely's face turning "purple" as Penny held him, proves "there are no alternative reasonable explanations" for how he died, Harris insisted, standing by her ruling. Harris said she presented her findings to other medical examiners, including the city's chief, Dr. Jason Graham, as part of a routine conference, and everyone apparently agreed unanimously with her assessment.

Over the course of four hours split between Thursday and Friday, Harris pointed to the exact moment when Neely passed out on the train's floor and highlighted his final "purposeful movement," a last attempt to escape Penny's hold on him before his body halted moving on its own.

"I believe that at this point he has lost consciousness, and what we will see in the form of these twitchings represents brain injury," she said around the video's two-minute-and-nine-second mark.

She also pinpointed an instance several seconds later when Neely's tense toes unfurled — an involuntary movement of a dying man, she said.
"Watch the feet," Harris instructed the jury. "That, to me, looks like the twitchings that you see around death."

She then flagged another moment that happened after Penny released Neely, in which Neely appeared to arch his back.

"That's not breathing," Harris said. "That's not voluntary. That's the sign of a brain dying."

She additionally noted pools of liquid that formed on Neely's pants, which she said were likely urine excreted during the death process.

First responders detected a faint pulse on Neely, who was pronounced dead at a hospital hours later. "I feel a pulse," one officer said on police-worn bodycam footage, as a second cop confirmed the finding. Despite the on-scene reporting, that does not contract her medical opinion, Harris countered.

The human brain "dies" before the heart stops, she said, and Neely was practically "brain dead" by this point from lack of oxygen, cut off by pressure applied to the neck.

"That makes perfect sense," she told jurors. "It doesn't surprise me at all that he has a pulse," she said, explaining, "The brain dies first" since "the brain is the most sensitive organ in the body to oxygen," so "deprived of oxygen for a long period of time, the brain will die.”

"He had a functioning heart in a dying body," Harris maintained. A pulse can last for about 10 minutes in such situations, she added.
However, when Penny's defense counsel pressed Harris on specifics, she couldn't determine his time of death.

"I can't tell you when exactly he died, philosophically, but the video is of a man dying," Harris said.

"This is an asphyxial death," she reiterated.
Harris also never waited for genetic testing on his heart as well as the results of other tests. Neely notably had a sickle cell condition, and Harris found damage to his spleen on account of the sickle cell trait. Harris said it's normally benign, an asymptomatic affliction, but his red blood cells were sickled because of "low oxygen" in her opinion.

Jurors were shown images of Neely's corpse, which Harris said showed bruising and crushed blood vessels ("hemorrhages") in his neck caused by a "considerable amount of constrictive, squeezing force."

"It's my medical opinion that there are no alternative reasonable explanations for Mr Neely's death," Harris told the jury.

Under cross-examination, Harris acknowledged that a colleague found the petechiae (small spots caused by bleeding) to be tiny and "not conclusive." She agreed that it would be fair to say that the petechiae isn't directly indicative that it was a chokehold-induced death.

Penny is charged with second-degree manslaughter and criminally negligent homicide. Harris tried to refer to the manner of death as a homicide, but the defense objected and the judge struck her statements from the record.

While conceding that Penny's intent may be "laudable," prosecutors are arguing that Penny acted "unnecessarily reckless." The crime occurred when Penny "went too far" with the six-minute hold restraining Neely, allegedly resulting in his death, prosecutors claim.

The trial resumes Monday morning with Harris returning to testify for a third day. After she's done, the prosecution is expected to rest, and the defense will call on its own witnesses.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/...a1cb93&lctg=21115632

https://rumble.com/v5rb9rb-dan...%20Millennial%20Live

He broke Rule #1: NEVER talk to the cops.

The Founders gave us the 5th for a reason.

In 2022 Schumer announced that the MTV was being awarded $6 billion, without which the system would go belly up. Even though there was no transfer of ownership, couldn't an argument being made that since the system was essentially bankrupt, and the federal government was keeping it alive through a massive payment, it was in effect at least partly federal property?

This is one of the worst travesties of justice since the officers were prosecuted for beating a belligerent, combative, Rodney King.

Judge Jeanine has been observing the trial from the courtroom. A few nights ago, she said it was not looking good. If this man is sent to prison – you know-- that racist killer – he will be a marked man.

I'm not a lawyer, and probably plainly shows. But I am just so infuriated.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
He broke Rule #1: NEVER talk to the cops.

It's effortless to sit in your chair and second-guess this man. I'm not going to do it.

You don't know what you might have done if you were in his shoes.

People bellow about never talking to the police but in the moment. even those who offer this advice might very well speak with authorities. It seems lost on people that a person might feel that refusing to speak with the police or refusing to speak without counsel might give the appearance of guilt. If a person feels or knows they have done nothing wrong, they might (and do, every day) cooperate fully with authorities.

One such scenario for this would be a home-defense shooting. A crazed man breaks into your home and you shoot him dead.

Which is more likely?

Police: What happened?

You: This crazy guy smashed down my door and attacked me and I shot him.

or

Police: What happened?

You: I refuse to answer questions without counsel present.

In which of these two scenarios might a reasonable person feel they are giving authorities reason to suspect their actions? Which of these two scenarios is far more common than the other?

It does not matter that remaining silent and having advice of counsel is your right. Does not matter. People are going to react in the moment and most of them will try to not antagonize the authorities. This is the practical reality of things. Your average person feels that clamming up or lawyering up immediately signals guilt to the authorities. And so, they talk.


From all I've seen, Penny acted in good faith at every turn. Unfortunately, he lives in a city in which the DA wants to get whitey, and the medical examiner bases their findings on watching a video.

There are many good people in New York, but NYC and New York state government have made it so that New York is no longer part of the United States, and has not been for many years.

I believe Penny will be acquitted.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
You don't know what you might have done if you were in his shoes.

In his shoes, at his age, I'd have likely done the same. With close to 40 years on him and a lot more wisdom, not a chance.

Watching those two pretending to befriend him and manipulate him into saying something he shouldn't was sickening.

quote:

One such scenario for this would be a home-defense shooting. A crazed man breaks into your home and you shoot him dead.

Which is more likely?

Police: What happened?

You: This crazy guy smashed down my door and attacked me and I shot him.

In my opinion, this is the correct answer. However, any follow up answers to questions should be avoided. That's the time to tell the police that you don't feel well and that you will answer further questions with your attorney present.

Jordan Neely’s cause of death wasn’t Daniel Penny chokehold — but ‘combined effects’ of drugs, struggle and schizophrenia: defense expert

https://nypost.com/2024/11/21/...enia-defense-expert/

Daniel Penny’s chokehold of Jordan Neely isn’t what killed the homeless man — he died from the “combined effects” of synthetic marijuana, schizophrenia and other factors, the defense’s medical expert testified Thursday.

Dr. Satish Chundru, a forensic pathologist based in Texas, told jurors in Manhattan Supreme Court that Neely’s autopsy records and video of the fatal F train altercation in May 2023 didn’t show signs typical of known chokehold deaths.

“In your opinion, did Mr. Penny choke Mr. Neely to death?” Penny’s attorney Steven Raiser asked.

“No,” replied Chundru, “the chokehold did not cause death.”

Chundru, who said he has worked as a medical examiner for county governments in Florida and Texas, ruled out two medically recognized chokeholds — the air choke and the blood choke — because he believed Neely, 30, died from other causes.

He also pointed out what he said were discrepancies in Neely’s medical records, specifically bruising on the homeless man’s neck, and how there was “almost negligible” petechia — tiny spots of bleeding — found on his eyelids, that Chundru claimed were inconsistent with a fatal chokehold.

Instead, Chundru — who dubs himself the “Forensic Doc” on his website — said that Neely died by “the combined effects of sickle cell crisis, the schizophrenia, the struggle and restraint, and the synthetic marijuana.”

Chundru claimed that schizophrenia carries an “increased risk of sudden cardiac death.”

He also testified that he’d seen deaths caused by K2 toxicity alone. Neely, a former Michael Jackson impersonator with a history of mental illness and drug abuse, had the synthetic marijuana in his system at the time of his death, trial evidence has shown.

The findings from Chundru — who was called by Penny’s defense attorneys — were far different from those of the city medical examiner, who stood by her ruling that Neely’s death was caused by asphyxiation as a result of the former Marine’s chokehold.

Dr. Cynthia Harris, who performed the autopsy, said video of the fatal encounter convincingly showed the chokehold was his cause of death — that she wouldn’t change her ruling even if it turned out Neely had enough drugs in his body “to put down an elephant.”

https://nypost.com/2024/11/15/...down-an-elephant-me/

Harris testified earlier this week that she and the other doctors at the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner, including the chief, believed that Neely’s death was caused by “asphyxia,” consistent with being choked, after seeing a journalist’s video of the homeless man “dying” with Penny’s arm wrapped around his neck.

Chundru was pressed Thursday by Manhattan Assistant District Attorney Dafna Yorna about his claim regarding the petechia on Neely’s eyelids — and eventually conceded that other medical professionals, including his mentor, did find that such symptoms were consistent with death by asphyxiation.

The prosecutor also grilled Chundru about whether the darker color of Neely’s face compared to his arms proved that blood wasn’t flowing to his head because his arteries and veins were being blocked as a result of the chokehold.

Yoran pointed to the bystander video where Neely’s face is darker than the rest of his skin as veins protrude from his forehead, and asked Chudru what he made of that.

“One suggestion is that he has some blockage, another suggestion is that he has a suntan,” Chundru said, before eventually agreeing with the prosecutor.

Chundru’s cross-examination will continue Friday, with closing arguments in the lightning-rod trial expected for Dec. 2.

Several eyewitnesses have testified that Neely, who was unarmed, was threatening passengers on the train during the May 1, 2023 encounter, but had not touched anyone before Penny took him down to the subway floor and held him in the chokehold.

Penny’s lawyers have said he acted to protect other straphangers and shouldn’t be held criminally liable for Neely’s death.

Prosecutors say Penny knew his actions could be deadly and continued with them anyway.

Penny, 26, is charged with second-degree manslaughter and criminally negligent homicide. He faces up to 15 years in prison if convicted on the top charge.

quote:

Dr. Cynthia Harris, who performed the autopsy, said video of the fatal encounter convincingly showed the chokehold was his cause of death — that she wouldn’t change her ruling even if it turned out Neely had enough drugs in his body “to put down an elephant.”

This alone should be enough to get this bitch removed as an “expert witness”. She is showing clear bias and is basing her statement on opinion, not science.

Daniel Penny won’t testify on his own behalf in lightning-rod manslaughter trial — as defense rests with testimony about Jordan Neely’s open warrant

https://nypost.com/2024/11/22/...neelys-open-warrant/

Daniel Penny’s defense attorneys rested their case Friday with testimony about Jordan Neely’s open arrest warrant — and without calling the Marine veteran to the stand at his lighting-rod manslaughter trial.

The final witness called by the defense was a court clerk, Brian Kempf, who testified Friday about issuing an arrest warrant for Neely in February 2023 — just two months before his death on the subway floor.

The Post previously reported that Neely that February had agreed to intensive outpatient treatment as part of a plea deal with Manhattan prosecutors that spared him prison time for a 2021 assault.

But Neely, a 30-year-old former Michael Jackson impersonator who long suffered from mental health issues and had a history of drug abuse, left treatment — and a judge issued the warrant for his arrest the next day.

Closing statements are expected to begin on Dec. 2.

More at link

What will the public learn from this? I would learn not to interfere and to leave that city/State asap.