quote:

Originally posted by Graniteguy:

How could anyone possibly know that based only on my post?

Then, I ask again...
What was the real purpose of posting it, if you're not trying to bash HP's?

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:

quote:

Originally posted by Graniteguy:

How could anyone possibly know that based only on my post?

Then, I ask again...
What was the real purpose of posting it, if you're not trying to bash HP's?

People are permitted to discuss anecdotes in my thread ya know.

It’s looking like it’s YOU that’s getting all defensive and weird about people not talking glowingly about heat pumps. Why is that?

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:

quote:

Originally posted by Graniteguy:

How could anyone possibly know that based only on my post?

Then, I ask again...
What was the real purpose of posting it, if you're not trying to bash HP's?

People are permitted to discuss anecdotes in my thread ya know.

It’s looking like it’s YOU that’s getting all defensive and weird about people not talking glowingly about heat pumps. Why is that?

I'm in Kentucky, and my heat pump works quite fine, so there is a personal anecdote.

My 2 cents
The technology is in-the-ground HP.

In 1987, I had a local plumber design in-the-ground HP using lines buried in the soil. The Deck house was well insulated with a solarium and a wood stove for back up heat.

Last year, a neighbor drilled a well for in-the-ground HP.

Now the Brits would be well served to use in-the-ground verses outside air.

The UK is gray and chilly a lot, but it never actually gets really cold. Modern air source heat pumps work fine there.

There’s nothing wrong with ground source heat pumps where they are feasible, but a huge percentage of the population of the UK lives in dense urban areas where ground source heat pumps are not practical.

Saw this update which tells me that the new PM there realizes what a disaster this would be for the average UK citizen:

Rishi Sunak takes axe to Tory net zero plans warning current 2030 target would cost families £15,000: PM waters down ban on gas boilers and petrol and diesel cars, scraps plans for seven bins per home and says there will be no extra tax on flights or meat

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
Rishi Sunak takes axe to Tory net zero plans warning current 2030 target would cost families £15,000: PM waters down ban on gas boilers and petrol and diesel cars, scraps plans for seven bins per home and says there will be no extra tax on flights or meat

f you don't eat yer meat, you can't have any pudding
How can you have any pudding if you don't eat yer meat?

The biggest thing I’m reading is the sticker shock that the average UK consumer there is experiencing when they do decide to get a heat pump to replace a gas boiler.

Unlike the majority of our heat pump systems here, which are forced air, all of theirs are hydronic (radiator) based and they are being told their existing piping and radiators all need to be replaced as the old piping/radiators are not large enough. Easily doubling or tripling the cost of a system replacement and many people are refusing to do it.

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:

quote:

Originally posted by Graniteguy:

How could anyone possibly know that based only on my post?

Then, I ask again...
What was the real purpose of posting it, if you're not trying to bash HP's?

People are permitted to discuss anecdotes in my thread ya know.

It’s looking like it’s YOU that’s getting all defensive and weird about people not talking glowingly about heat pumps. Why is that?

If memory serves, Excam is a HVAC professional. That might have something to do with it.

I have two heat pumps (one upper, one lower) and live north of Cincinnati. They do alright. I will allow it’s kind of a “cold heat”. When it gets really cold I usually put a wood fire in and it’s all good.

Here is what totally PISSES me off about this CRAP. The average thermodynamic efficiency of a Natural Gas powered Generator is at 2 levels. One is the basic turbine/gen set design and that has an efficiency of 30 to 35%. Then there is the two stage design that basically has a secondary passive turbine running off the exhaust gases of the primary turbine engine and powering a secondary generator. It just about doubles the installation cost and foot print but the return is an efficiency in the low to mid 40 Percent range. BTW powerline losses for a grid run in the 5 to 8% range, so add that to the results for natural gas powered generators. Also note that probably 75-80% of all the worlds electricity is provided by natural gas powered generators.

Now contrast that with the thermodynamic efficiency of a modern high efficiency furnace. That is in the 94 to 98% range.

The big question here is why do these morons not realize that electric heat is not a solution, it is in fact a bigger problem that piping the gas direct to the furnaces. I will also note that is also an issue with electric cars, they are running off "dirty" electricity.

Finally if you were to design a car with a hybrid ICE/Electric drivetrain it's actually possible to get an ICE engine to yield a 50% efficiency. The key to this is that the ICE engine must be a ground up design as a Constant speed engine, meaning it runs at one single RPM. If you need more power you can gain torque by using the throttle on the engine and when it's running at max torque you can then use the battery pack to provide a short period of maximum system power. As for braking, that is all regenerative with a couple of disk brakes up front providing a reserve. Basically it's a locomotive powertrain designed for passenger cars and maximum efficiency. Start building cars to that standard and you'll actually have a vehicle that is very carbon light.

My place has a heat pump. Granted it is a small cottage, maybe 6-700 square feet tops but it did fine last winter. I keep it at 65 and turn it down when at work and I don't think I had a monthly bill above $160.00. It did struggle when we had a cold snap down to -30 for a few days. I have a backup propane heater I use primarily for power outages (otherwise the generator would struggle to run the HP and the other items I want to keep online) but even in NH the -30 thing is a once every couple of years sort of temperature. I believe on refrigerant alone it'll supposedly handle to -35 but as others have said, at that point its running nonstop even in this place which is extremely well insulated.


All that said, fuck these mandates sideways. This is a rental so obviously I don't have much control over how it was built but if I had my own place, I absolutely would want an oil furnace as in a pinch I can run to a gas station for diesel if needed.

quote:

Originally posted by maladat:
The UK is gray and chilly a lot, but it never actually gets really cold. Modern air source heat pumps work fine there.

There’s nothing wrong with ground source heat pumps where they are feasible, but a huge percentage of the population of the UK lives in dense urban areas where ground source heat pumps are not practical.

Nailed it. Not only that, but the sub-surface infrastructure can be up to 150 - 175 years in towns AND cities across the UK.

My part of rural Cambridgeshire is literally on the boundary line between upland shale and what, until the late 1600's, was marshy fenland - IOW - swamp - just like the Everglades.

Heat pumps?

I think not.