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Member |
 I saw this a few weeks ago, but learned yesterday the Citation driver is a friend. His wife was aboard and told him "we're on fire" - they'd felt a big bump but couldn't see anything - yet. The Pilot asked he not be identified so I'm respecting his request. He's VERY upset about this incident. Hard to imagine how this happened after hearing his description; I'll provide more as he permits. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/t...firefighters-killed/ | ||
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| Member |
That's a very unfortunate situation. 2 young fire fighters killed etc. It looks like the Cessna had some speed and was semi airborne when it clipped the Citations tail. I'm not sure how you can visually miss a Citation 525 on the runway. | |||
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Raptorman |
Looks like he tried to take off behind the landing Citation and it slowed quicker than anticipated. ____________________________ Eeewwww, don't touch it! Here, poke at it with this stick. | |||
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| Conveniently located directly above the center of the Earth  |
pardon my ignorance of such details, wondering whether such damages result in 'total loss' of the air frame, or whether repairs might restore to 'normal service'? I suppose there is some degree between 'repairable/NOT repairable'. Who makes the call? Does the airplane market have such as a 'salvage title' similar to motor vehicles, and is there a class of private air craft in service after similar degree of damage? Is the boneyard the likely fate for this particular air plane? **************~~~~~~~~~~ "I've been on this rock too long to bother with these liars any more." ~SIGforum advisor~ "When the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change, then change will come."~~sigmonkey | |||
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| Member |
Not a pilot. But I'm pretty sure NTSB inspects the crash and comes up with their findings and then FAA inspectors inspect the airframe/plane and determine if the airframe is fixable, FAA inspectors I think are the only ones that can determine that. My sheer guess, since the fixed tail rear of the airframe is a high load point that has been completely severed, the plane is not fixable and goes for scrap. Also given the damage to the rear of the airframe and the starboard jet engine, I would guess even if you could repair it, it would be financially cheaper to buy another plane. I do not believe there are rebuilt titles etc for airplanes. These are all just well educated guesses as I'm no expert. I have a customer that had to belly land his WWII trainer (T6 Texan/snj5) on the West coast of FL about a year ago since the engine blew up. There were no casualties, injuries, or damage to people or property other than the plane itself which actually fared really well, so the NTSB investigation was very quick. They removed the wings for transport and also everything had to be check for cracks on the airframe and wings and signed off by an FAA inspector. None were found and the plane was trucked to NJ and rebuilt and then inspected again by an FAA inspector before given a certificate that it can fly again. | |||
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| Go ahead punk, make my day |
Never a good idea to takeoff behind landing traffic that has yet to clear the runway. | |||
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Semper Fi - 1775 |
Oh boy...another aircraft crash thread, these always end well.  ___________________________ All it takes...is all you got. ____________________________ For those who have fought for it, Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ | |||
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| I believe in the principle of Due Process  |
^^^^^^^^^^ What happens if the plane blows a tire on roll out, collapses a gear, runs out of gas, etc. I wonder if jet blast from the engines could mess with lift right behind and above the plane? Jet blast messed with me as I was landing just as a 727 on the crossing taxiway powered up to taxi into position, and blew me sideways, luckily with time to recover and land. The damage is confined to the tail section. An AI can probably sign off on a new tail. The insurer will pay its insured, sell the damaged plane to a refurbisher who will do the restoration and sign off on it. Not much chance of recoupment depending on who owned the 150. Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me. When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown | |||
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| Little ray of sunshine  |
Your buddy is lucky not to be killed himself. The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything. | |||
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Corgis Rock |
Look at the map of the airport, there are two runways that cross. Could this have happened at the intersection? “ The work of destruction is quick, easy and exhilarating; the work of creation is slow, laborious and dull. | |||
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| Member |
You're not kidding! Another SoCal friend/astronaut who was taught to fly many years ago by the Citation pilot is back in IN helping his primary instructor through the FAA/NTSB mess. | |||
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| I believe in the principle of Due Process |
Looking at that photo, the debris field for the 150 is not very big, is it. Yikes! Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me. When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown | |||
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Shaman |
OK here's the preliminary NTSB report. He stated that he did not recall making a radio call on UNICOM, but did utilize his on board Traffic Collision Avoidance System (TCAS) system while on approach. He stated that the TCAS did not show any traffic on the airport. Passengers aboard the Cessna 525 were interviewed and all reported that they did not see the Cessna 150 on the approach or during the landing roll. The reported weather at MZZ at the time of the accident was VFR with 4 miles of visibility due to haze. Also, at the departure and arrival ends of runway 15/33, there was a sign stating, "Traffic Using Runway 4/22 Cannot Be Seen, Monitor Unicom 122.7." At the departure and arrival ends of runway 4/22, there was a sign stating, "Traffic Using 15/33 cannot Be Seen, Monitor Unicom 122.7." The MKK airport does not have a control tower.  He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. | |||
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| I believe in the principle of Due Process |
Apparently so, or close.
Link Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me. When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown | |||
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אַרְיֵה |
Here we go again. No, Jimmy, you are incorrect on a couple points. FAA inspectors are definitely not "the only ones that can determine that." FAA inspectors do NOT give "a certificate that it can fly again." You have a lot of good knowledge about the yachting world and you make some great contributions there. Stick to that. Not a good idea to make assertions about aviation with "knowledge" gained from flying with a friend. If you really want to know about aircraft repair, and what is required to return an airplane to service after major repairs, it's all documented on the faa.gov website. Do a little digging there and find the actual facts. הרחפת שלי מלאה בצלופחים | |||
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| Go ahead punk, make my day |
Damn, collision at the intersection. Someone wasn't making calls or listening to the radio. Ouch. | |||
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thin skin can't win |
Perfect confluence of clickbait and aviation/shipping. Shocking. You only have integrity once. - imprezaguy02 | |||
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| Move Up or Move Over |
So, based on the little info known at the moment: who is at fault. They had to stretch to make that headline... | |||
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Still finding my way |
Harrison Ford? Han flying again? | |||
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| Member |
Learned to fly in 150 Aerobat. Had a conflict in approach airspace as I was doing repeated touch and goes. Another pilot in a owned Cherokee didn't observe practice on uni-com to radio his intention for a direct approach to our only active. Nor was he listening to my constant broadcast of my location and intentions. His plane became apparent in my windscreen as I was crosswind to final and had to take evasive action to avoid midair. I approached him on ground but his luther copilot/passenger stopped me from coming to blows with this not too competent bastard. Changed my view of private aviation and uncontrolled airfields. That jet jockey better hope evidence shows he was in fact on the uni-com broadcasting his intentions and that he was aware of he 150 in the area. | |||
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