quote:

Originally posted by TigerDore:
Participation medal?

Knights Bachelor medal.

He was awarded the Queen's Police Medal while in a prior post, which at one time qualified as a big deal. It now comes in two varieties, one for gallantry (a big deal) and "conspicuous devotion to duty" (the most nebulous basis ever coined.) Give you two guesses which one he received.

I would rather have been stabbed to death alongside the other officer in a vain attempt at stopping the killer than what that coward has to endure for the rest of his shitty life.
At least then what life I had would have meant something.

Disgusting. Fucking cowards. The whole country.

A few years ago, I was on a cruise that folks from the UK happened to make up the bulk of the passengers on. I met a married couple of UK police officers, the husband being a very high ranking administrator and his wife who happened to be a K9 handler. When we met, they told me about an incident that occurred during an excursion they were on just a few hours earlier. The two saw an old man being accosted by some sort of lowlife, who was trying to commit a strong arm robbery. The male officer decided to "act" by shouting for the offender to "See here! Stop that right now!", but taking no further action even though it was clear that the suspect involved was trying to pull the old guy into doorway of an abandoned structure where he could be accosted in privacy. At some point though, the suspect did release the victim and casually walked away.

At the time of our discussion, I wasn't going to voice any criticism for the relatively little help these two provided, as the situation did end reasonably well and I'd just met the couple. We spoke for a good hour or so and during the course of our conversation we started discussing some of the differences between our countries' views on the use of force. At one point, I described how I'd used OC ("Pepper Spray") to disable a guy I'd seen commit a carjacking (using physical force) on my way in to work one morning.

When the two heard my story, they looked somewhat aghast that:
1) I'd gotten involved, even though the incident literally occurred in the municipal parking lot in front of my police station.
2) That I'd possessed and actually used a chemical agent while technically "off-duty". (I later explained that once I got involved, my status immediately changed to on-duty.)

That the manager was shocked shouldn't have been a surprise to me, but his wife's reaction was quite interesting. I told the two that I'd heard police in UK did utilize liquid teargas like our officers and I asked if they could carry it off-duty, within policy. The two looked at each other and the wife asked her husband if it was "permitted." He responded that he didn't even know, but he'd check into it!

Clearly, the culture of the organization doesn't even recognize that cops have any kind of moral obligation to provide direct assistance with less than lethal levels of force while off-duty. The officers there may as well be mail carriers or bus drivers as far as the "leaders" of the constabulary are concerned, certainly while off-duty and (apparently) while on-duty in many circumstances as well. I'm sure all cops in the UK don't like this aspect of their law enforcement culture, but it does reflect how many citizens within that nation's population feel. IMHO, that's pretty sad.

Stop I say, or I shall shout stop at you some more!

I might even become cross and shout something rude, then apologize!

quote:

Originally posted by Mars_Attacks:
Stop I say, or I shall shout stop at you some more!

I might even become cross and shout something rude, then apologize!

I'm sure the use of "Hollow" (point) threats is strictly forbidden!

quote:

Originally posted by oldRoger:

quote:

I was reminded of my basic training group’s being asked, “What’s the spirit of the bayonet?”

I received my basic/advanced infantry training in 1953, at that time bayonet training was being reemphasized due to experience in Korea where the bayonet was used. (There was also great emphasis placed on firing your M1, many had been found bayoneted in their foxholes by the Chinese with unfired weapons).

As a result I learned that a lot of life's problems can be solved with a vertical butt stroke.

I went in the army in Aug/55. Training schedule called for 1 hour of bayonet drill per week. Our CO had been commissioned (from Corporal) for leading a bayonet charge that enabled the unit to throw the bad guys off a hill, take it and hold it.

Our CO gave us an hour of bayonet drill every day!!

Concerning the "article", I learned long ago that a good walking stick can do a LOT of damage, and wonder what would have happened had that asshole that stabbed the cop had been faced with one of those walking sticks.

Thinking about it, I might retreat to my workshop and fabricate me one of them. Nice one out of oak, maybe 2-2.5 inches at the top, tapering to about one inch.

About 3.5 feet in length sounds about right. Not to replace a firearm mind you.

My group's monthly training was today.

We shot something around 200 rounds pistol each and had 4 hours in the mat room.

We shoot on-par with the SWAT team, pistol-wise. And today my 7-man unit suffered two black eyes, one dislocated shoulder, plus one broken rib for our supervisor.

We're ready to roll

(I should note that those are the first serious injuries from a training day in the year I've been on the unit.)

quote:

Originally posted by pulicords:
[I]t does reflect how many citizens within that nation's population feel.

That’s the alpha and omega of the entire thing. We must remember that the whole idea of a representative democracy is that laws and other policies such as how the police interact with criminals is what the electorate supposedly wants. If the people who make themselves heard in the UK want the powers of the police to be severely limited, then the police have an obligation to comply with those desires. Yes, we may be able to point to many individuals who don’t want that, and it’s even possible that if all the people were queried individually that they would say they object. But those policies and laws didn’t come into being overnight, and it’s highly unlikely they will disappear overnight merely because some people don’t like them. And no rational person would expect career police officers who are hired to do a job within those laws and policies to take it upon themselves to do things differently. Doing so would not change the laws, policies, or culture, and would merely subject them to various sanctions, some very severe. Life is not a James Bond movie.

What’s more, I am truly mystified every time I read something tarring everyone in the entire UK or other foreign country with the same brush because of some particular law, policy, or culture. Anyone who pays the slightest attention to events outside their own myopic views can cite countless similar examples of idiocies that are just as bad here. Raise your hand if you have responded to every irrational or unjust law, policy or cultural element with civil disobedience that could cost you your job and livelihood, land you in jail, or subject you to hefty civil liability.

How many here heard of the very recent effort in California to change the fundamental legal justification for use of deadly force by the police? If you heard of it, did you understand its implications? If you understood its implications, would it have affected you personally? If it would have affected you personally, were you prepared to quit your job, move out of the state, and try to find a job as an assistant manager at a convenience store or something equally lucrative and satisfying?

If you answered no to any of those questions, pot, meet kettle.

Another apology, but ....

As a student of military history I would be fascinated to learn—other than via a twice or more-removed anecdote—of any combat action in the latter half of the 20th century or later that was resolved successfully by the fact that one side attacked with fixed bayonets.

Outside of basic training I myself had only one real life experience with bayonets. When my and an adjacent unit occupied a bunker during an attack on the compound perimeter in 1969, the commander of the other unit had a bayonet fixed to his M16. When the senior NCO got there, he said, “Captain, take that goddam thing off your rifle!” In retrospect I realize that outside of basic training I was never issued a bayonet during my 23 years of active duty. (Of course, it wasn’t until Ronald Reagan became President that CID agents were even issued M16 rifles, so I suppose the bayonet thing doesn’t prove much.)

Anyone who had the opportunity of regular training with a totally obsolete weapon is, however, to be congratulated on serving when the US armed forces had nothing better to occupy their men’s time with. I have been retired for decades now, but as early as the late 1980s a large amount of time was spent training on essentially useless subjects at the expense of topics of actual value to such things as unit mission, including fighting wars. If a commander had the luxury of spending time on useless subjects that weren’t dictated by higher headquarters such as various forms of sensitivity issues, he was indeed fortunate.

I would have skewered the SOB with a wiper arm. A radio antenna across the face would deter most. The guy has a lot of metal on his uniform. Pull it of and make it useful! Storm drain. Cobblestone. Piece of the curb. Hell, anything that I could get my hands on.

Can't imagine just being a spectator.

He's a fucking pussy. But why would an officer guarding parliament be unarmed? And considering what the politicians have turned England in to, why isn't every officer armed?

Can't be much of a student of (American) military history if you never heard of Lew Millett.

quote:

Originally posted by 2012BOSS302:
He's a fucking pussy. But why would an officer guarding parliament be unarmed? And considering what the politicians have turned England in to, why isn't every officer armed?

Dude...you know the answer. It’s because it’s an island of boot licking peg boys.

quote:

Originally posted by .38supersig:
I would have skewered the SOB with a wiper arm. A radio antenna across the face would deter most. The guy has a lot of metal on his uniform. Pull it of and make it useful! Storm drain. Cobblestone. Piece of the curb. Hell, anything that I could get my hands on.

Can't imagine just being a spectator.

Exactly.

I can’t even imagine for a second just sitting there, watching a fellow human get butchered and not doing something. Sick piece of shit

quote:

Originally posted by RAMIUS:
Disgusting. Fucking cowards. The whole country.

Yeah, especially these four.

Joshua Leakey
James Ashworth
Bryan Budd
Johnson Beharry

I can't tell if you're serious.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
Another apology, but ....

As a student of military history I would be fascinated to learn—other than via a twice or more-removed anecdote—of any combat action in the latter half of the 20th century or later that was resolved successfully by the fact that one side attacked with fixed bayonets.

<snip>

Short story of some Brits in Iraq. Mahdi Army on receiving end of the pokey bits.


Link

Slandering the ENTIRE English people for the actions of this one coward makes about as much sense as judging all of the US based on "Dr" Ford's amateur theatrics. . .

quote:

Originally posted by RAMIUS:
Disgusting. Fucking cowards. The whole country.

I'll excuse you this one time.

tac, 33 years in the British Army.