Once locked in battle, now united.

So when we were there on the USS Tarawa (LHA-1) in early 2001, as I recall, our Marines were strictly forbidden from doing a few things (like retracing the WWII steps and "walking the beach."

Thing about a US Marine, never tell him (or her) what they cannot do when they are paying homage to their fallen brothers. They came back with a few buckets of the black sand which in turn, was handed out to everyone in the Amphib group in the form of a little vial (oil sample bottle for those of you familiar with aviation maintenance) and certificate showing where the sand came from.

Marines did the same with white sand from Betio Island in the Tarawa Atoll.

quote:

Originally posted by LS1 GTO:
So when we were there on the USS Tarawa (LHA-1) in early 2001, as I recall, our Marines were strictly forbidden from doing a few things (like retracing the WWII steps and "walking the beach."

Thing about a US Marine, never tell him (or her) what they cannot do when they are paying homage to their fallen brothers. They came back with a few buckets of the black sand which in turn, was handed out to everyone in the Amphib group in the form of a little vial (oil sample bottle for those of you familiar with aviation maintenance) and certificate showing where the sand came from.

Marines did the same with white sand from Betio Island in the Tarawa Atoll.

SOAP bottles! I remember them well. We found a couple of other uses for them too.

BTW, a very nice story about the sand. Thanks for sharing.

Let me know when the Japanese stop demanding apologies from us for their actions, which caused us to have to bomb the shit out of them.

Older Japanese and others in the know, hate the USA. I don't know how those situations evolve over time but it's apparently still pretty raw. I don't see the point in messing with it, it only stirs things up. I don't know anything about Japanese culture then or now or how their culture and politics have evolved, but other things being equal, I don't think we owe them anything along the lines of WW2 or anything else.

Japan was essentially a religious cult with Hirohito as the leader and the country blindly followed him over a cliff.
Yes, the militarists did the work but he had no problem going along.
Long after it was clear they couldn’t win and faced annihilation that would result in the end of their god, he ordered them to stop. The country mostly turned one eighty (also in blind obedience) and the war ended.

I had an uncle that was in the invasion force. He was badly injured and retired from the Marines at 18.

Semper Fi.

My Grandfather's brother, a Marine, died on Iwo Jima. I have his Purple Heart. The Japanese can cry all they want. They started it. My Grandfather was in the Army and his other brother the Navy. They both survived WW2.

quote:

Originally posted by wrightd:
Older Japanese and others in the know, hate the USA...

My experience in Japan was much different than yours, in four years I never encountered any hostility. From 1989-93 I lived in Kure, 20 miles south of Hiroshima, as an Army civilian at the Akizuki Ammo Depot few have heard of. There were about 20 US civilians, 20 military, and 300 Japanese at three physically separate sites.

My wife and then toddler daughter were with me, we lived off post in a Japanese neighborhood. While I was at "the office" or traveling for work, they hung out with the neighbors and our daughter attended kindergarten. Wherever we went, we were treated with kindness and patience. And a little curiosity, as the locals rarely saw foreigners.

Some Japanese may "hate the USA," but I did not see this.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Let me know when the Japanese stop demanding apologies from us for their actions, which caused us to have to bomb the shit out of them.

I wasn't going to say anything, however, my first thought was WTF are we doing having a honor service with Japan.

This same stuff is pushed by Hollywood, check out the ending of the movie Midway, it's after the credits, called a Stinger, where it's dedicated to all who fought, both sides.

quote:

Dedication: This film is dedicated to the American and Japanese sailors who fought at Midway.

The sea remembers its own.

The last survivor of Pearl Harbor just passed away, the end of an era, and sadly perhaps marking a time where end of Americans remembering the atrocities and violent nature of Japan during that time.

HRK, one of the greatest traditions in war is recognizing that your foe, whilst representing a government or cause that is completely opposed to yours, is a courageous and tough bastard worthy of your respect.

Washington extended it to Cornwallis, the Australian army soldiers who killed the Red Baron in WWI gave him a full military funeral with honors. The Germans did to the French defenders of Lille, the British to the Italian garrison of Amba Alagi. Fritz Stigler in a BF-109 allowed Charlie Brown in an utterly destroyed B-17 to return to England.

The soldier in front of you is an enemy, and should be treated as such. However, if they fight and die in such a way that merits your respect, then it should be accorded. There are incredible stories of heroism, sacrifice, and courage in battle, no matter the color of the uniform.

The 442nd Regimental Combat Team is still the most decorated unit for its size ever in the US armed forces, and was comprised of ethnic Japanese who enlisted in the US Army. It was a different time, but the challenges and struggles they faced while still serving with honor is incredible.

The US army in WWI, if I remember correctly, was almost a majority of first and second generation German immigrants. You have a duty to be patriotic and serve your country, and they did so bravely. If the parents of either of the last two groups hadn’t immigrated to the US, they would have served on the opposite side, and would likely have served with equal bravery.

All this to say it’s ok to honor the poor dead bastard if he fought well. NOT ok to honor the country or cause.

quote:

Originally posted by reloader-1:
HRK, one of the greatest traditions in war is recognizing that your foe, whilst representing a government or cause that is completely opposed to yours, is a courageous and tough bastard worthy of your respect.

I’m not a vet, but I disagree.

Take, for example, Japanese Captain Shigematsu Sakaibara. When the Americans were approaching to retake Wake Island, he ordered all the American prisoners on the island to be slaughtered. One American escaped, was recaptured, and Sakaibara personally beheaded him.

Sakaibara was not a cause or a government, and does not deserve respect then or now.

CoolRich, I didn’t say that you respect all of them, obviously.

We honor our war heroes, yet Eddie Slovik has an unmarked grave somewhere in France that cannot be visited.

Of course I am not saying to honor someone who committed war crimes, or despicable acts against civilians.

What I am saying is if your enemy acquits himself well, and commits the only fault of wearing another uniform but otherwise acts, fights and dies (or lives) in a manner worthy of respect, then that respect should be accorded.

The fact that you read my entire post about units and individuals who acted honorably in a wartime environment and twisted it to respecting a war criminal is interesting. Does my third paragraph sound like it applies to the perpetrator of the Wake Island atrocity? Or my last one? Seriously?

My Father passed away several years ago. He was a Marine and served on Tinian and Saipan during WW2.
He had just turned 17 when he was shipped overseas.
I remember him telling stories and showing me pictures of the islands and how they would go up into the hills with flamethrowers to burn the Japs out of caves. The photos showed the burned Japanese soldiers dragged out of the caves.The Japanese soldiers would come out of the caves and snipe our troops. My Fathers best buddy had his head removed, while talking to my Dad, by a sniper.
My Dad also had pictures of the bomber being loaded with the A bomb on Tinian and how cocky the air crew was.
After the War ended my Dad was stationed in Japan until he could be sent home.

My Dad came home and went to school and became a Teacher, then a Principal and finally the Superintendent of a School district. After he retired he taught graduate school at a University.
He was a serious, giving person BUT,He never forgot the Japanese and what he witnessed and experienced during the War. To his last days he would NOT even consider anything made by the Japanese and I always felt from his tone and attitude that he still carried deep hostilities toward the Japanese.

My Step brother and his wife (who is half Japanese) are very liberal.They are both Hollywood people.
I remember one day when they were in town visiting and the subject of the A bomb droppings in Japan came up.There point of view was it was UN-necessary to drop those bombs.My Dad stood up and had a fit at there suggestions.He went on to tell my sister in Law that he wished they could have dropped more. He then asked Her where Her family ties in Japan were. After she told him he replied with a big smile on his face, telling her how The USA bombed the shit out that town.
The look on her face was priceless.

quote:

Originally posted by reloader-1:
CoolRich, I didn’t say that you respect all of them, obviously.

We honor our war heroes, yet Eddie Slovik has an unmarked grave somewhere in France that cannot be visited.

Of course I am not saying to honor someone who committed war crimes, or despicable acts against civilians.

What I am saying is if your enemy acquits himself well, and commits the only fault of wearing another uniform but otherwise acts, fights and dies (or lives) in a manner worthy of respect, then that respect should be accorded.

The fact that you read my entire post about units and individuals who acted honorably in a wartime environment and twisted it to respecting a war criminal is interesting. Does my third paragraph sound like it applies to the perpetrator of the Wake Island atrocity? Or my last one? Seriously?

Sorry reloader-1, I didn’t read your post closely enough. My apologies.

CoolRich, I apologize as well - I was too harsh, dealt with something at work and took it out on you. All good, brother.

These guys do a great job of illustrating how, in detail, the battle happened. It's a 4 part series.