Denver Could Decriminalize Magic Mushrooms on Tuesday

May 05, 2019, 10:31 AM

quote:
Originally posted by gearhounds:
I'm not at all concerned about flashbacks; I'm way more worried about morons tripping balls piloting 2 ton battering rams around.

But hey, I'm sure they'll be just like the drunks that know the law and would never even consider getting behind the wheel while under the influence.

^^^^ Yep ^^^^

May 05, 2019, 10:39 AM

TigerDore

quote:
Originally posted by TXJIM:
... With that said, it's one of the bits of hysteria that is often thrown out in these types of arguments...

Come on, dude. Citing studies that indicate long term psychosis and flashbacks can occur with the use of psychedelics isn't hysteria.

.

May 05, 2019, 10:40 AM

jljones

quote:
Originally posted by FenderBender:
quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
quote:
Originally posted by FenderBender:
Good. If we treat people like adults, it's their responsibility what they put in their body.

Don't be some nanny state, big government asshole, you know like a democrat.

So you support a minimum five year prison term ( no probation or parole) for those that misuse dope? You know, it being their responsibility and all? People always tout that they want personal responsibility, but then act like an asshole democrat when it comes to the “or else”.

That’s the problem with the “freedom” crowd. They talk a good game, make a ton of excuse, usually pretty sarcastic (mmmmm drugs are bad) but personal responsibility ends with the choice of being able to smoke drain cleaner. Not what happens after you smoke drain cleaner. I think you should be able to smoke drain cleaner. And I think the first time you get out of line under the influence of drain cleaner you should be removed from society for a nickel. You know, personal responsibility and whatnot. (Cue the but, but, but alcohol argument)

define "misuse"

Further, identify anything you may do exclusively on; as you call it "dope," that's not already illegal where said dope user might be injurious to someone else.

Anything at all under the influence. I should not have to put up with your bullshit because you decide to smoke drain cleaner. And that, is freedom.

ANYTHING. Pick one. Did I mention ANYTHING. That is personal responsibility. Please feel absolutely free to smoke all the drain cleaner, eat all nature’s herbs and plants you choose. But, society just doesn’t have to put up with your shit. You make the choice, you fuck up, you can try it again in five years.

What is being called freedom in these threads never turn out to be freedom. They are the exact ideals that the gun grabbers peddle. Those who couldn't follow the law before will all of a sudden be model citizens with a legislative change. And that simply ain’t so.

So, you want my support? Legalize everything. Lock up anyone for extended periods who can’t follow the law. But, as I said, excuses will continue to be made. What people want is legalized doping, not true freedom.

May 05, 2019, 10:40 AM

TigerDore

quote:
Originally posted by Bytes:

Bullshit. None of the people I was hanging with in college and still associate with now have ever had a "flashback". Anecdotal evidence at best but still first hand.

Well there ya go. I'm convinced.

.

May 05, 2019, 10:41 AM

gearhounds

quote:
What people want is legalized doping, not true freedom.

Bingo. The Idiocracy.

May 05, 2019, 10:41 AM

maximus_flavius

There is no one in Colorado saying “man, if only shrooms were legal, I’d be doin them”.

Anyone who wants any kind of drugs in Colorado already has them & does them at their discretion.

May 05, 2019, 10:44 AM

roberth

This a private domain vs public domain issue.

I don't care what you do in your own home.

The problem is that dopers don't want to stay home, they want to get into the public domain, and they expect all the sober people to put up with their bullshit.

This has nothing to do with true personal responsibility, if that were the case they wouldn't be polluting their bodies with drugs in the first place.

May 05, 2019, 10:45 AM

maximus_flavius

quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
quote:
Originally posted by FenderBender:
quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
quote:
Originally posted by FenderBender:
Good. If we treat people like adults, it's their responsibility what they put in their body.

Don't be some nanny state, big government asshole, you know like a democrat.

So you support a minimum five year prison term ( no probation or parole) for those that misuse dope? You know, it being their responsibility and all? People always tout that they want personal responsibility, but then act like an asshole democrat when it comes to the “or else”.

That’s the problem with the “freedom” crowd. They talk a good game, make a ton of excuse, usually pretty sarcastic (mmmmm drugs are bad) but personal responsibility ends with the choice of being able to smoke drain cleaner. Not what happens after you smoke drain cleaner. I think you should be able to smoke drain cleaner. And I think the first time you get out of line under the influence of drain cleaner you should be removed from society for a nickel. You know, personal responsibility and whatnot. (Cue the but, but, but alcohol argument)

define "misuse"

Further, identify anything you may do exclusively on; as you call it "dope," that's not already illegal where said dope user might be injurious to someone else.

Anything at all under the influence. I should not have to put up with your bullshit because you decide to smoke drain cleaner. And that, is freedom.

ANYTHING. Pick one. Did I mention ANYTHING. That is personal responsibility. Please feel absolutely free to smoke all the drain cleaner, eat all nature’s herbs and plants you choose. But, society just doesn’t have to put up with your shit. You make the choice, you fuck up, you can try it again in five years.

What is being called freedom in these threads never turn out to be freedom. They are the exact ideals that the gun grabbers peddle. Those who couldn't follow the law before will all of a sudden be model citizens with a legislative change. And that simply ain’t so.

So, you want my support? Legalize everything. Lock up anyone for extended periods who can’t follow the law. But, as I said, excuses will continue to be made. What people want is legalized doping, not true freedom.

Liberals want no consequences for breaking the law. Drugs or not.

Conservatives/Libertarians want freedom to make choices. I’ve never heard 1 say here should be no repercussions for breaking real laws (like crimes involving a victim).

Please don’t confuse the 2 completely different positions from 2 entirely different groups.

May 05, 2019, 10:46 AM

RHINOWSO

quote:
Originally posted by FenderBender:
Good. If we treat people like adults, it's their responsibility what they put in their body.

Don't be some nanny state, big government asshole, you know like a democrat.

Legalize everything, but with that comes a non-revokable "DNR" if you have anything beyond pot in your system.

Cuz, freedom is freedom. I shouldn't have to pay for ODs and medical treatment for people who don't care about their own well being.

Their so responsible to put shit into their bodies, they can be responsible for what comes afterwards. You know, like take care of themselves too. Freedom and all.

No more nanny state, no more help. OD, you die.

May 05, 2019, 10:49 AM

slosig

The problem is that we as a society are far too conflicted. If drugs are bad, the answer is simple: 5 years hard labor for a first offense, 15 years hard labor for a second offense, and life hard labor for a third offense. Pretty soon demand would dry up and the problem would go away. If drug are not bad, decriminalize them, BUT actually hold people accountable but their actions, whether on drugs or not. You screw up, you pay big time, consequences with teeth. No “He’s a good kid, he’d never have done but for the drugs.” He chose to take the drugs, he is responsible for that choice and all choices made while under influences.

The libertarian in me says that the guy sitting in his house or apartment doing his weed, opium, shrooms, or whatever that he bought with money he earned legally isn’t hurting anyone else and is neither my business or my government’s business. The realist in me says it just isn’t that simple and no man is an island. Maybe if we didn’t have the medical care system we do and we just let people die when they screw up there would be one less reason for the government to get involved, but even then there would be a societal cost. And we certainly do not live in a society where we let people just die when they screw up.

It has been a few months since I had a conversation over coffee with a young lady who had passed the MCATs, but decided not to go to med school. She was continuing to work as an EMT on a local ambulance and doing coding for a local doctor. When I asked if there was an opiate problem she mentioned the guy who after she dosed him for the third time in a week she told, “Bro, you need to rethink things. What if I don’t get here next time?”

May 05, 2019, 10:49 AM

Kuisis

quote:
Originally posted by Mars_Attacks:
The liver donor list will skyrocket.

What does the use of mushrooms have to do with liver damage? Just curious, I've never heard of a correlation.

May 05, 2019, 10:49 AM

TigerDore

quote:
Originally posted by jljones:

Anything at all under the influence. I should not have to put up with your bullshit because you decide to smoke drain cleaner. And that, is freedom...

... What people want is legalized doping, not true freedom.

I feel about the same. I don't care if someone wants move to the wilderness, miles away from machinery, voting booths, etc and munch mushrooms or move to a reservation and chew on peyote until they pass out. The issue I have is when a drug abuser affects me or other members of society with their behavior.

.

May 05, 2019, 10:51 AM

FenderBender

quote:
Originally posted by TigerDore:
quote:
Originally posted by FenderBender:

show me any legitimate scientific study (preferably double blind) that supports the "flashback" concept.

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publ...gfacts/hallucinogens

.

Propaganda, I said show me the study.

here, I'll get you started.
https://scholar.google.com/sch...in+flashbacks+&btnG=

May 05, 2019, 10:52 AM

flesheatingvirus

quote:
Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

Legalize everything, but with that comes a non-revokable "DNR" if you have anything beyond pot in your system.

Cuz, freedom is freedom. I shouldn't have to pay for ODs and medical treatment for people who don't care about their own well being.

Their so responsible to put shit into their bodies, they can be responsible for what comes afterwards. You know, like take care of themselves too. Freedom and all.

No more nanny state, no more help. OD, you die.

I'd be OK with that.

quote:
Originally posted by TigerDore:
quote:
Originally posted by FenderBender:

show me any legitimate scientific study (preferably double blind) that supports the "flashback" concept.

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publ...gfacts/hallucinogens

.

He said "legitimate scientific study". That is not what you linked. We need methods, sources, references, etc. Wikipedia has more citation than that site. Plus, that isn't exactly an unbiased source. That would be like me linking to an NRA page for a gun control debate.

May 05, 2019, 11:01 AM

TigerDore

quote:
Originally posted by flesheatingvirus:

He said "legitimate scientific study". That is not what you linked. We need methods, sources, references, etc. Wikipedia has more citation than that site. Plus, that isn't exactly an unbiased source. That would be like me linking to an NRA page for a gun control debate.

You and FenderBender don't like what the government site says. You think Wiki is a better site. I get it.

.

May 05, 2019, 11:07 AM

TXJIM

quote:
Originally posted by TigerDore:
quote:
Originally posted by TXJIM:
... With that said, it's one of the bits of hysteria that is often thrown out in these types of arguments...

Come on, dude. Citing studies that indicate long term psychosis and flashbacks can occur with the use of psychedelics isn't hysteria.

.

I am not advocating for the use of hallucinogenic drugs, or any other drugs, but let's at least be honest when arguing either side of the issue. All kinds of shit "can occur" from any number of activities legal and not legal. Trotting out flashbacks as an honest argument is a joke. First, can you define a "flashback"? Ever known anyone who actually had one or cite a source claiming to have had a harmful one? Can you find one single example of a "flashback" actually causing harm in the real world, just one. One car crash, one heavy machinery incident, one trip on a crack in the sidewalk....anything.

May 05, 2019, 11:10 AM

jljones

quote:
Originally posted by maximus_flavius:
quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
quote:
Originally posted by FenderBender:
quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
quote:
Originally posted by FenderBender:
Good. If we treat people like adults, it's their responsibility what they put in their body.

Don't be some nanny state, big government asshole, you know like a democrat.

So you support a minimum five year prison term ( no probation or parole) for those that misuse dope? You know, it being their responsibility and all? People always tout that they want personal responsibility, but then act like an asshole democrat when it comes to the “or else”.

That’s the problem with the “freedom” crowd. They talk a good game, make a ton of excuse, usually pretty sarcastic (mmmmm drugs are bad) but personal responsibility ends with the choice of being able to smoke drain cleaner. Not what happens after you smoke drain cleaner. I think you should be able to smoke drain cleaner. And I think the first time you get out of line under the influence of drain cleaner you should be removed from society for a nickel. You know, personal responsibility and whatnot. (Cue the but, but, but alcohol argument)

define "misuse"

Further, identify anything you may do exclusively on; as you call it "dope," that's not already illegal where said dope user might be injurious to someone else.

Anything at all under the influence. I should not have to put up with your bullshit because you decide to smoke drain cleaner. And that, is freedom.

ANYTHING. Pick one. Did I mention ANYTHING. That is personal responsibility. Please feel absolutely free to smoke all the drain cleaner, eat all nature’s herbs and plants you choose. But, society just doesn’t have to put up with your shit. You make the choice, you fuck up, you can try it again in five years.

What is being called freedom in these threads never turn out to be freedom. They are the exact ideals that the gun grabbers peddle. Those who couldn't follow the law before will all of a sudden be model citizens with a legislative change. And that simply ain’t so.

So, you want my support? Legalize everything. Lock up anyone for extended periods who can’t follow the law. But, as I said, excuses will continue to be made. What people want is legalized doping, not true freedom.

Liberals want no consequences for breaking the law. Drugs or not.

Conservatives/Libertarians want freedom to make choices. I’ve never heard 1 say here should be no repercussions for breaking real laws (like crimes involving a victim).

Please don’t confuse the 2 completely different positions from 2 entirely different groups.

Oh I am not confusing anything. I’m telling you what I see on society today. I’m basing my position on experience, and common sense. When people break the law by misusing guns, we don’t need to know the definition of is to wonder if they should be locked up. With dope, we have to know specifically what is is before we can get behind it. It is nothing but further normalizing criminal behavior through legislative action.

Want my support? Start locking people up for dope related crimes. No probation, no parole. Kentucky has a crime index based upon reports that 81 percent of all crime is drug related. And I’m not talking about possession charges. I’m talking about stolen cars, burglaries and robbery’s are because someone was using dope. My own case load is closer to 97 percent. My own experience shows that decriminalization does nothing to reduce crime. It’s the same false platitude that the reason gun control doesn’t work is we just need more of it.

Be free. Legalize everything. Misuse it, and try again in five years. Can’t understand why it is so hard to grasp.

Oh and Rhino is dead balls on as well. Freedom should mean truly free. Not picking and choosing free.

May 05, 2019, 11:14 AM

braillediver

quote:
Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World":
..there is always soma, delicious soma, half a gramme for a half-holiday, a gramme for a week-end, two grammes for a trip to the gorgeous East, three for a dark eternity on the moon...

May 05, 2019, 11:18 AM

flesheatingvirus

quote:
Originally posted by TigerDore:
quote:
Originally posted by flesheatingvirus:

He said "legitimate scientific study". That is not what you linked. We need methods, sources, references, etc. Wikipedia has more citation than that site. Plus, that isn't exactly an unbiased source. That would be like me linking to an NRA page for a gun control debate.

You and FenderBender don't like what the government site says. You think Wiki is a better site. I get it.

My god, man. You know very well that that is not at all what I said. Try addressing comments to contribute to a discussion rather than taking this way out. I feel like I’m trying to debate a liberal college student.

May 05, 2019, 11:22 AM

1s1k

I think I would rather see Ayahuasca or DMT legalized before mushrooms. People that have taken those typically have positive life altering experiences and no one wants to drive a car.

Admittedly I have no idea if mushrooms offer a similar experience.