When I was selling mechanical service and we needed to replace some type of water heater, not only did we try to not sell electric on demand heaters, we had the customer sign a clause stating that we strongly recommended against the electric versions and that they were ignoring our recommendation.

That slowed down a bunch of them.

quote:

Awesome! That’s what we call in the trade a “rat’s nest”.

I'd love to see what it looks like inside.

Bet it doesn't look like mine.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:

quote:

Awesome! That’s what we call in the trade a “rat’s nest”.

I'd love to see what it looks like inside.

Bet it doesn't look like mine.

If this cousin does not get to it I will be flat out of options and you’ll get to see it for yourself.
I will have no choice but to smuggle you into the state and since anyone from out of state gets 14 days quarantine you get 14 days to finish the job.
You’ll have a nice little cabin, a generator, 26 acres, and a pond to occupy your time when you are not wiring the place!

But seriously I’ll snap a picture with the cover off next time.

I'm afraid to see. The one above was one of my least favorite jobs ever. When I opened up the wall it was filled with mold and I had to move it to the left a foot in order to meet working clearances for code. They drywalled over the right-hand side and built an wall making to make a closet that had to be removed. I'm actually surprised it came out as pretty as it did. I wish I had taken a pic before I started tearing stuff out. This one was after two hours of demo and starting to pull old panel out. I was sick for two days after the job. If I knew the mold was present I would have made him have remediation and demo done prior to my arrival. Yuck.

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:

Again folks I am not looking at while house units.
I am looking at 3 separate point of use units.

You need a whole house heater if you plan on taking showers with it.
And at that point, there's no need for the other two.

The ones in the links provided by another member are not large enough for taking showers. That is, if you plan on having a hot shower.

The ones I linked to are whole house (read that as shower) heaters.
The 22 (22kw) is the minimum I'd recommend for showers.

Then, there is always the SUICIDE shower head heater that I've seen in many places in Central America. I DO NOT recommend using these, as one short and you can be dead. It is literally a shower head with a heating element that you plug into the wall outlet!

Shown here.
https://www.amazon.com/ixaer-E...id=1586837369&sr=8-6

^^ I love reading the product descriptions of cheap Chinese shit. I always wonder why they can't find an American to proof read it for $100?

Another point to consider is the line coming into the home. It may only have been rated for the panel installed initially.

We’ve done a few major remodels where a service upgrade was needed. In those cases (typically from a 60 or 100 amp service up to as much as 400 amp) we had to coordinate with the local utility company to run an upgraded service to the house...

^^ That was my point on first page. He will need a heavy up or service upgrade (same thing goes by different names in different areas). The one I pictured above was a 150a → 200a. It required a new service drop, new panel, new cold water ground, and ground rods. Can't remember off the top of my head, but I think the final cost was $4,500-5k. Typical fair cost for normal installs in my area is $2,500-$4,000 depending on length of cold water ground, number of circuits, and other factors.

In VA and MD, utility company does not charge for utility line from pole to house.

Hey Jesse here is the inside of the rats nest

Wow. Nice. Honestly not the worst I've seen, not even close. You are definitely at capacity now. A electric on demand is out of the question for you, but the point of use ones may be doable with existing service size (100a), but doubtful.

What is your heat source? Looks like you have stove 50a. Dryer and HWH 2*30a. The 20a is probably only one room of electric heat. Also looks like you got at least one double tapped breaker there. Also you've got a white wire landed on a single pole breaker? I'm guessing another room of electric heat?

I would absolutely replace that panel and go with a larger one if doable. Not sure how service upgrades work where you live, but the power company here brings it to the house here for free and from the meter on is your responsibility.

Coal stove and oil furnace were the heat sources.
Those were pulled as heat is not needed anymore than a space heater will do.

This is the box that was purchased when my cousin was supposed to do it.
Schneider Electric QO32M100VP QO 100-Amp 32-Space 32-Circuit Indoor Main Breaker Load Center with Cover Value Pack https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00D..._api_i_itHPEb582XZG5

Other loads correctly guessed? Range, HWH, and Dryer? What are to other 240 loads in the house? I'd love to see the service upgraded, but I have no clue what's involved in your area, but if you are replacing the standard 4500w HWH with a shower unit that uses the same, and adding small sink ones for the the kitchen sink and bathroom you may be fine. What about hot water for a dishwasher, do you have one there?

No matter what I'd make sure whoever you have size service and determine what you are going to hook up to your new panel and wiring is and expert, not just someone 'who can do the work'. A lot of times I see things done by people who can do the work, but don't understand sizing and code or knowing where it is important to not push it vs realizing that in some cases the code is stupid or just would never apply in intended usage. Also any installations should be idiot proof, meaning that if your buddy and his wife borrow the place for the weekend they can cook, do laundry, and shower all at the same time with out complicated instructions on what to use or not use at the same time.

Range, Dryer, and Hot water heater is correct. No dishwasher and the range is now gone as well.

As frustrating as it is likely just hook up a new small tank.
Fella that is going to do it is fully licensed and insured as his side job. He is a master electrician at a Federal Prison as his main job.

You got to have uniform flow. The undersink heaters I had experience with were flow sensitive. Flow too fast, get cooler water. Flow slower, get hotter water.

Sounds like you should be able to get by with additional load since you are removing range and load of HWH. Meaning, you might not need service upgrade.

The only thing I'd be wary of is if all his experience is industrial/commercial, or if he's familiar with residential installations as well.

What provisions for cooking are you making? Hot plate + grill?

Do you have propane or Natural gas there?

I have a small 120v tankless at our camp. We (my wife) wanted just enough hot water to do the dishes. It works but Hamden106 is right on the money. With our pump setup, the flow is not consistent enough to work properly and the water temp fluctuates. I am going to go with a small/very small tank setup, and just turn it on when we stay there.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
Sounds like you should be able to get by with additional load since you are removing range and load of HWH. Meaning, you might not need service upgrade.

The only thing I'd be wary of is if all his experience is industrial/commercial, or if he's familiar with residential installations as well.

What provisions for cooking are you making? Hot plate + grill?

His side gig is residential. Cooking is a small convection oven, microwave, or hot plate.

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:
Do you have propane or Natural gas there?

Sadly not. That would make this issue much easier.

Bought a neighbors house to turn into a rental. I knew it had low voltage running through it but never imagined the rats nest behind the cover. My neighbor had found only 1 person in the county to work on it. I think the main panel needs replaced too, don't ya think?