I worked 80 credits prior to starting with a non contributing employer. My benefit is based on those years and income, no credits show for the years outside the system.
I worked. I and my employers paid into the system. I don’t see how a benefit based on those criteria should be considered a windfall.

So the correct solution is dissolve SS all together.

quote:

Originally posted by DetonicsMk6:

quote:

Originally posted by B92F:
Here are some actual figures based on my personal work history.

My 2019 social security statement says that based on my work history starting in 1973, my expected benefit amount at age 66 and 2 months was $1,196.00/month which could also be reduced due to the Windfall Elimination Provision (WEP).

When I retired in February 2021 at age 66 and 2 months, my actual benefit was, due to the WEP act, $802.00/month. A $394.00/month decrease. In my 48 years of working there were only 10 years where no social security taxes were taken out.

I and probably most of those impacted by the WEP are not asking, and do not want any benefits we are not entitled to. But that extra $394.00/month certainty isn't a "windfall" and would come in handy.

Exactly correct. We don't want benefits we didn't earn, we just don't want to be penalized because we also have a pension from a non-contributing government employer.

So is your total payment from Uncle Sam (SS plus free pension) less than the max SS benefits you'd could get if you worked at normal job and paid FICA the entire time? If the answer is yes, then I'd support making your total pension + SS equal to the max SS benefits. Otherwise you aren't being punished, you just aren't getting something you didn't pay for.

Honestly you should consider yourself lucky to be 'penalized' that 7.5% of your salary you got to keep instead of funding a ponzi scheme is worth way more than anything you could ever possibly receive from SS. If I could find a way to make that deal to be 'penalized' I would take it any day and twice on Sunday.

“Why we use a different formula:
Before 1983, people whose primary job wasn’t covered
by Social Security had their Social Security benefits
calculated as if they were long-term, low-wage workers.
They had the advantage of receiving a Social Security
benefit that represented a higher percentage of their
earnings. They also had a pension from a job for which
they didn’t pay Social Security taxes. Congress passed
the WEP to remove that advantage.” Social Security Windfall Elimination Provision

What I’m understanding is that if you were a low-wage worker for the entirety of your working career, Social Security uses a different calculation the for a high-wage worker which results in a lower benefit for the high-wage worker than a low-wage worker. Some people, by not working for an employer paying into SS, were having their SS benefits calculated as low-wage workers because the calculation didn’t take into account all the wages those people earned during the years they worked for non-SS paying employers. The WEP corrects that and those people get the same benefit they would have been entitled to as if they had worked for SS paying employers their entire working career.

Seems fair to me.

quote:

Originally posted by Aglifter:
So the correct solution is dissolve SS all together.

What the fuck are you talking about?

quote:

If I could find a way to make that deal to be 'penalized' I would take it any day and twice on Sunday.

To be fair, you had that opportunity and didn't take advantage of it.

Edit in OP. Passed by the Senate.

Great.

The taxpayers takes it in the shorts once again.

Will teachers give back all the extra money they have been given? Will they have to pay all that money to the feds that I’ve been forced to pay over the last 40 years?

Am I understanding this right? So right now if you are a government employee and pay social security taxes out of each check, but you will receive a pension from your agency when you retire, then your SS benefits will be reduced just because you get a pension despite having paid SS taxes every check?

I work in state law enforcement and I pay SS taxes. When I retire, I will receive a pension from the state. I have earned my 40 SS credits.

Or, is the reduction only for people who worked for the government but did not pay SS taxes?

This is correct. I just checked my last paystub for this year and it shows i have contributed almost 5K for this year. I better get my Social Security pension when it is my turn to collect (without any reduction).

quote:

Originally posted by SigFan:
FERS employees - Federal Employees Retirement System - DO pay into SS and are fully entitled to collect benefits once they achieve 40 credits,

It is great. Really! It corrects an inequity that should have never existed. If you read my previous post I pretty much explain it in more detail. It seems simple enough to me.

Again, allow me to ask. Those giant raises that the teachers unions demanded and got will be refunded to the taxpayers, yes? The cola increases that they demanded and got (three to four times above the cola of other civil service employees)based upon the “we don’t get social security” will be refunded to the taxpayers, right?


The answer of course is the taxpayers are on the hook for this.

quote:

Originally posted by Ogie:
It is great. Really! It corrects an inequity that should have never existed. If you read my previous post I pretty much explain it in more detail. It seems simple enough to me.

I am not seeing this simple detailed explanation of the situation. Can you repost?

I asked the question to AI and it said your SS income would be reduced if your government job you receive a pension from did not contribute to SS. SS taxes are taken out of my government job paycheck and I also paid them for over 20 years in the private sector. I am just trying to understand this whole situation.

I would think that if you had a job in which you and your employer did not contribute to SS, then yeah you shouldn’t get SS at retirement. A person should use the money they saved from not being taxed by SS to invest in a 401K, IRA, etc. This is the first I am hearing about any of this so I apologize for being rather ignorant on this topic.

I figured since I pay into SS both in my past private sector jobs and now my current government job, that I will get my pension plus the full amount of SS that the SS website says I will get.

Maybe kinda a little easier explanation as it pertains to MY situation.

I worked 12 years in NON-PENSION jobs and paid into SS.

Then I worked 30 years in LE and paid into the pension plan.

I retired and got my LE pension.

When I was of age to take SS, I was hit with the WEP. For those 12 Years paying into SS I only get 500.00 a month. This 500.00 has nothing to do with my pension plan it is from the 12 years THAT I PAID INTO SS at my other jobs. This is a result of the WEP.

Because I get a pension plan (defined pension) I was penalized and not paid my fair share of what I PAID INTO SS when I worked 12 years paying into it. Granted, I will not benefit thousands of extra dollars but still, fair is fair.

Saying that others will have to pick up the tab or it's not fair since we get a defined pension is not fair and inaccurate. Congress corrected the unfairness to those of us who paid our FAIR SHARE into SS but didn't benefit from what we paid into it.

IIRC the madwoman Feinstein was the architect to establish WEP and GOP years ago.

In reality, all the money I paid to SS helped others collect their SS and kept the system solvent longer since millions of us WERE NOT PAID what we were fairly owed and our owed money subsidized the system for others.

This has nothing to do with padding our pensions, only correcting what has been denied people with pensions plans. People who on day one of their lives worked entirely in a pension plan will not benefit from WEP unless their plan ALSO paid into SS.

Hope this helps

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Again, allow me to ask. Those giant raises that the teachers unions demanded and got will be refunded to the taxpayers, yes? The cola increases that they demanded and got (three to four times above the cola of other civil service employees)based upon the “we don’t get social security” will be refunded to the taxpayers, right?


The answer of course is the taxpayers are on the hook for this.

It is my understanding (which very well could be wrong) is if they have never paid into social security they will get no SS benefits. Except possibly survivors benefits.

The main issue is many people work enough time paying into SS before or after their nonSS job to collect a SS check.
If they did and receive a SS check that amount is penalized simply because they also had a pension.

They aren’t receiving benefits they did not work for/paid into.

quote:

Originally posted by urbanwarrior238:
Maybe kinda a little easier explanation as it pertains to MY situation.



This has nothing to do with padding our pensions, only correcting what has been denied people with pensions plans. People who on day one of their lives worked entirely in a pension plan will not benefit from WEP unless their plan ALSO paid into SS.

Hope this helps

Exactly.

Well I sure hope this is signed into law. That would be insane that I have contributed to SS on every paycheck of my life and then get penalized just because I now have a job that will pay a pension.

The pension isn’t free. I have money taken out of each check, along with SS, to fund the pension. This would be about the same as saying if someone works for a company that will match your 401K contributions, then your SS should be reduced.

I just looked and to date, me and my employers have contributed $250K so far to SS.

Two workers, both make the same amount of money for their entire careers, both work low paying jobs and pay into SS their first 10 years. After the first 10 years they switch to higher paying jobs and earn pensions. The difference is worker one gets a job and continues to pay SS taxes while worker two gets a job that is exempt from SS taxes.

Because of a quirk in the SS benefit calculations prior to 1983, worker two would have a higher SS benefit or the same amount as worker one even though both worked the same amount of time and made the same amount of money. Worker one paid more into the system than worker two and certainly should have a higher SS benefit. The WEP passed in 1983 fixes that.

That's my layman's understanding.

quote:

Originally posted by Fed161:
I hope it passes the Senate and gets signed into law as well. This would affect federal, state, and local government employees. Given the anti-government sentiment direction that the wind is blowing, it might be tough to get it through the Senate, but I hope so. I think Biden is likely to sign it. I voted for the guy, but I doubt that Trump would sign it. Although I certainly could be wrong about that.

When asked by the FOP about this Trump advised he was for it.

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:

They aren’t receiving benefits they did not work for/paid into.

No. This is about participation not who paid what.

Teachers unions have long demanded money to compensate for not being able to participate in social security. We paid it. Are we now getting that extra money refunded if this passes?