So much of my youth was spent reading Clancy books. THFRO is amazing, and RSR may be my favorite, however Without Remorse is probably its equal in my mind. The Clark origin story, particularly following the exploits in Cardinal just makes you dream of being the avenging archangel that is John Clark (Cardinal is also amazing, though the brutality of the psychiatric torture in that is hard to read for me - I understand why it was never made into a movie, so integral to the plot and impossible to film).

This thread has given me my next few boooks!

Cardinal of the Kremlin is my fave with Red Storm Rising a close second.

The decompression chamber torture scene in Without Remorse is brutal, but so is the sensory deprivation chamber scene in Cardinal. I really liked all the ones he wrote himself. Red Rabbit, Rainbow Six, etc. I got them all the day they came out.

quote:

Originally posted by Blackmore:

quote:

Originally posted by Hound Dog:
Bear/Dragon was garbage, imo. I had to force my way through. I think that book was mostly ghost-written, as it lacked all the things that made his other books great.

I wouldn't say garabage but I know what you mean. I have no problem at all with the premise though...

I have no problem with the actual story. The problem is that you have to wade through hundreds of pages of characters inner reflections to get to the story. It reminds me of Atlas Shrugged in that it really needed a good editor to cut the book in half or more.

There are two main theories about his later books, one being that they are ghostwritten and the other that Clancy had enough control over the final product that he didn’t use an editor. I lean towards the ghostwriter side because too much changed. Executive Orders and Bear and Dragon are hard reads IMO. I do remember liking Red Rabbit, but I’m reading them in order of release so I haven’t read that one since shortly after it was originally released. Rainbow Six was good too. The story was great.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Pale Horse,

I though that "The Hunt for Red October" movie was very realistic. The sonar scenes in particular were very realistic, although in my experience (ex-submarine sonarman) they were very time-compressed.

Red October was, IMO, the best book-to-movie adaptation of all time. Every adaptation will change the story, since books and movies are entirely different types of media. This movie made significant changes (such as removing the Brit involvement, deleting the storyline with the Pogy and the last underwater fight, setting up the old US boomer to explode to provide a realistic debris field, etc), but it was still excellent.



My problem with Bear/Dragon was the wasted potential. They had the old WWII Soviet sniper, who I expected to teach the new guys survival/sniper skills as they were cut off from their support far behind enemy lines. Nope - they just let him make one simple sniper kill and even that wasn't a challenge.

They had a token sub fight. They had a token air-to-air engagement. They had a token surface ship battle. None of these really had any drama, since tbe odds were so stacked in favor of the good guys.

Then they had a token spy operation, with them switching out multiple cars, using disguises, etc, (like what they did in Cardinal/Kremlin). But this time, it was all wasted effort since the guy they were surveiling had no clue he was being followed and made no effort to even look out for a tail...

Oh, and tbe special ops guy who claimed "all European guns are garbage" - yeah, right. SIG, HK, Glock,... all garbage.

Either Clancy 'dialed it in,' or it was a bad ghostwriter (neither of whom had an editor).

Now, which of you here have the Red Storm Rising Micro Prose PC game? Mine is post-May '89 edition, that I got right after reading RSR in summer of '89.

I hate a Kilo class lurking on electric drive.

Love the movie ... and a few days ordered the book to read (have not) because now interested to know the ending of the book vs the movie. Thanks for the motivation to get back reading again.

I was fortunate enough to be invited to the commissioning of the USS New Hampshire at the Portsmouth Navy Base years ago.

During a BBQ we started talking about that scene of the movie. They showed me the hatch needed to load and unload everything into the ship.

You really can't be that chunky and fit.

Recently a friend on the New Mexico in for a refit explained that the only way to refit is to cut holes into the hull.

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Originally posted by barndg00:
So much of my youth was spent reading Clancy books. THFRO is amazing, and RSR may be my favorite, however Without Remorse is probably its equal in my mind. The Clark origin story, particularly following the exploits in Cardinal just makes you dream of being the avenging archangel that is John Clark (Cardinal is also amazing, though the brutality of the psychiatric torture in that is hard to read for me - I understand why it was never made into a movie, so integral to the plot and impossible to film).

This thread has given me my next few boooks!

I wish Without Remorse had been made into a film. I know it was discussed at one point but think it's too dated now to probably get made.

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Originally posted by DaBigBR:
I wish Without Remorse had been made into a film. I know it was discussed at one point but think it's too dated now to probably get made.

The screenplay was just completed for Without Remorse. The movie is set for release either this year or next. Unfortunately, John Clark is now a black dude, played by Michael B. Jordan. The rest of the cast seems pulled from the Woke Actor's Guild, too.

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Originally posted by Orguss:

quote:

Originally posted by DaBigBR:
I wish Without Remorse had been made into a film. I know it was discussed at one point but think it's too dated now to probably get made.

The screenplay was just completed for Without Remorse. The movie is set for release either this year or next. Unfortunately, John Clark is now a black dude, played by Michael B. Jordan. The rest of the cast seems pulled from the Woke Actor's Guild, too.

They've also revised the plot, and his "fellow SEAL" is female...

An elite Navy SEAL uncovers an international conspiracy while seeking justice for the murder of his pregnant wife in Tom Clancy's Without Remorse, the explosive origin story of action hero John Clark - one of the most popular characters in author Tom Clancy's Jack Ryan universe. When a squad of Russian soldiers kills his family in retaliation for his role in a top-secret op, Sr. Chief John Kelly (Michael B. Jordan) pursues the assassins at all costs. Joining forces with a fellow SEAL (Jodie Turner-Smith) and a shadowy CIA agent (Jamie Bell), Kelly's mission unwittingly exposes a covert plot that threatens to engulf the U.S. and Russia in an all-out war. Torn between personal honor and loyalty to his country, Kelly must fight his enemies without remorse if he hopes to avert disaster and reveal the powerful figures behind the conspiracy.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0...7/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0

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Originally posted by smlsig:
I love the Hunt for Red October but don’t forget an earlier book he wrote Red Storm Rising. Supposedly he got access to the actual NATO playbook. Great reading!

My brother was an A10 pilot stationed in England in the late 80's. He said Red Storm Rising was pretty accurate about the A10 response to a soviet invasion.

“Now that I know what to listen for, I’ll bag him”.

Why do anything? Let the Russkies think it works.

Just realized this after watching the movie for 30 years.

I was in college when this movie came out. I saw it the first time in the theater on campus. The crowd was so loud you couldn't hear any sound. It was years before I saw it again and had any idea what it was really about.

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Originally posted by sigalert:
“Now that I know what to listen for, I’ll bag him”.

Why do anything? Let the Russkies think it works.

Just realized this after watching the movie for 30 years.

You do know that both sides have been hunting subs for decades, right? They'd figured out ways to detect the sounds from subs long before the movie came out.

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Originally posted by Orguss:
You do know that both sides have been hunting subs for decades, right? They'd figured out ways to detect the sounds from subs long before the movie came out.

I was only speaking to the plot of the movie.

After reading some of these posts, I want to go back and read “Cardinal” and “Without Remorse” ... I read them back in the late 80’s ( I think ) - I’m 47 now and don’t remember anything about them except I liked them - lol

MDS

Just in case anyone lost their copy,
The Hunt for Red October (A Jack Ryan Novel Book 1) Kindle Edition $1.99 on Amazon and possibly other stores.

I think Without Remorse is my favorite closely followed by THFRO. I also enjoyed Patriot Games and Debt of Honor.

I've got every book that Clancy personally wrote, both in paperback/hardback and kindle.

I read them all around once a year.