If you do, it's time to consider getting rid of that thing, and getting something more efficient. That also doesn't require a chimney.

Of course, there are a number of things to consider, such as: How long do you plan on being in the home? How old is the current boiler and water heater? Fireplace(s)?

Other options which I've also done for people, involve ducted systems. These can be all electric or hybrid. High velocity is something I haven't seen done in a while, certainly since Mini-splits matured. When ducting, we've actually installed standard sized ducting regularly. In a home not built for it it can be challenging, but people have not been wanting the high velocity.

Here at my home, I'm going rogue, and keeping the century old cast iron radiators, but modernizing the heating and zoning it out. Most of the time people want to get rid of the radiators for perceived space savings. Can you get something smaller that puts out the same Btu? yes, but no. Radiators HOLD that heat like nothing else, hydronic units are the closest to holding an even heat once the system kicks off. Most everything else dumps heat while the system runs then cools.

If you have a boiler and water heater, combining these two into one has efficiency advantages. I am going with a hot water loop to a storage tank, I don't recommend running heat and hot water demand straight off one boiler. It can be done, but the throughput demand is high.

A sealed combustion condensing boiler is expensive, but cheaper than it used to be. The rest of the system is also a cost. I'm paying a plumber to do it, so it can also be serviced by them. All the rest of the necessary prep and demo I'm doing. Permitting, electrical, thermostats as well.

The set point for heating will remain about 165, until the house is sufficiently insulated and I can drop the set point and get even better performance.

Chief among the advantages though, is knocking that chimney down. We don't have a fireplace. It goes through the middle of the house. Having one less hole in the roof, and the space we get by getting rid of it is huge.

If I were building a house today, I'd look at heating and cooling with mini-splits, and a hybrid electric heat pump water heater. To do that you need a good to excellent level of insulation throughout the home first, so you've got to be able to do it all in one go really.

The cost of construction or renovation is high enough that I can only afford to pick away at it. I can't pay me to do it for me. The comfort and savings in utility is worth it, the chimney going by-by means the kitchen can be awesome some day, among other things.

Not parting ways with my chimney no matter which path I take. My high efficiency insert keeps my central heat from even turning on until it gets REALLY cold. The unit does a very effective job of blocking air flow in the off season. At 53, I enjoy felling, cutting up, and splitting big trees. Yes, I’ve been using a splitter since last year and will never go back if I can help it.

I’d like to have a geothermal system if they weren’t so twitchy and prone to issues- at least from the people I’ve talked to that invested in them.

For now, the chimney stays.

In my big kids house I removed the boiler, water lines, radiators, but couldn’t take out the chimney as there is also a fireplace. But when he sells the place it will now have central heat and air....

The radiators were not the cast iron style.

I looked into getting a new Natural Gas fireplace. It would have been many thousands of dollars. Outrageous when you consider what it is.

I was considering an instant hot water heater, but stuck with the old tank since they said my vent wasn't big enough for the instant hot water.

Here in San Diego chimneys are only for decorative fireplaces, most gas. A damper clamp is required to keep the chimney open so if you’re not using the gas fireplace in cold weather you’re getting a downdraft.
In the little rental house we bought we had the chimney taken out to create a much more open and spacious feel.
The biggest problem was putting bamboo flooring in—couldn’t find a match, had to have it milled to size then I glued it to concrete slab. Looked good in the end.
In our own house we’ll keep the two chimneys but will end up putting in gas fireplace inserts as they do provide heat, are clean, decorative, and not a waste of energy as open gas or wood fireplaces are.

quote:

Originally posted by bigmule:
So much to consider in these mods.
We moved to a 1832 church recently. And boy, I don’t think my wife wants to see me any more. There is pile of work and repairs to chip away at. (Like a life time worth.) Above and beyond the “honey do list”.

We already did two boilers for the rentals in the building, our space is handled by a Buderus G143. Surprisingly easy to work on but kinda spendy to buy. So easy I showed the plumbers apprentice what to and how to make the repair...!
For now we need to keep the chimney, the two boilers and H2O tanks all vent to it.
And There are a few bigger needs To address before we deal with that.

Like finish the tree house!!

Buderus used to make awesome boilers. They've since been bought and had some failure problems such that all the plumbers I know stay away from the new ones.

Almost all my work is renovating old homes. Occasional new construction. An old church huh? Interesting.

One thing to keep in mind going to newer high efficiency units, is no more waste heat in the basement. Or rather, only from any exposed heat pipes. It's typical now to either zone the basement, or just put one radiator in the basement that is tied to the first floor loop.

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:
Not parting ways with my chimney no matter which path I take. My high efficiency insert keeps my central heat from even turning on until it gets REALLY cold. The unit does a very effective job of blocking air flow in the off season. At 53, I enjoy felling, cutting up, and splitting big trees. Yes, I’ve been using a splitter since last year and will never go back if I can help it.

I’d like to have a geothermal system if they weren’t so twitchy and prone to issues- at least from the people I’ve talked to that invested in them.

For now, the chimney stays.

If we had a fireplace the chimney would stay. A fire is better than any television, frankly.

Geothermal can work, I've dealt with a few over the years. They've got to be done right, and you need enough years out of them for the high cost. The newer ones use one very deep "well" instead of burying a bunch of piping. For a small home, it's not at all cost effective. Every time I've dealt with one it's a frickin mansion.

Solar, on the other hand, works great on a small home.

Thanks for starting this thread!

I have baseboard hydronic heat and my family loves it. We have no AC though. My brother insists that spacepak is the way to go, but I just know that minisplits are more efficient AND we can use them for heat on cool spring and fall nights when we don't necessarily need to run the boiler. Then again, my brother also insists that a boiler "sidecar" is the best way to replace our standard gas/tank water heater, but I've been told that it makes the boiler run much more often, and we'd also need to run it all summer.

Have you heard of or ever worked with highseer.com or more specifically the Pioneer mini-splits?

What about on-demand hot water service? Is that preferable to a boiler/water-heater combo, if my boiler isn't quite ready for a replacement? (Cast iron, active ventilation, probably 7 years old)

Keep us posted on the chimney thing, that sounds like a fun project (after it's finished that is).

quote:

Originally posted by Veeper:
Thanks for starting this thread!

I have baseboard hydronic heat and my family loves it. We have no AC though. My brother insists that spacepak is the way to go, but I just know that minisplits are more efficient AND we can use them for heat on cool spring and fall nights when we don't necessarily need to run the boiler. Then again, my brother also insists that a boiler "sidecar" is the best way to replace our standard gas/tank water heater, but I've been told that it makes the boiler run much more often, and we'd also need to run it all summer.

Your brother is wrong.

quote:

Have you heard of or ever worked with highseer.com or more specifically the Pioneer mini-splits?

Fujitsu and Mitsubishi almost exclusively, with a few other brands sprinkled in over the years. Neither of those ring a bell. There are a lot of brands out there now, it's a pretty "mature" technology. Now that they can operate, though with less efficiency, in cold climates. Still if it's really fucking cold, mini-splits may not work well enough. I'm thinking up Canada way, or Alaska, but I'm sure there are some other states that would make mini-splits as the sole heat source a bad idea.

We may put them in the bedrooms, just for cooling at night during the summer.

quote:

What about on-demand hot water service? Is that preferable to a boiler/water-heater combo, if my boiler isn't quite ready for a replacement? (Cast iron, active ventilation, probably 7 years old)

At 7 years, and I think you mean power vented? You probably should get some more years out of that unit.

You can, and I certainly have done work where there is no storage tank. The boiler tech is much better now, even a few years ago it would have been a hard no to do all tankless, or say two tankless, on for heat and one for hot water. It can and does work, but must be sized correctly. In both the throughput of the unit, and the capability of the unit to heat water to the desired temp fast enough.

People often don't like the delay, and also the continuous use of water or multiple sources calling for hot water can mean tepid water if things aren't designed properly with "on demand". A storage tank gives you a "dump load" of hot water, and gives the unit a chance to catch up, particularly if heat zones are also calling.

The other thing that modern boilers have that older ones do not, is "outdoor reset." This lets the boiler know it can run at a lower temperature, when heat is called for during non-freezing times, or when only potable hot water is needed. Some boilers, in the case of sealed combustion, also modulate due to the temperature of intake air.

quote:

Keep us posted on the chimney thing, that sounds like a fun project (after it's finished that is).

I enjoy working on my own home, for the most part. There are certain things I'll still pay someone to do, if it is outside my expertise or manpower, but I'd rather have the savings and do it how I want, if time allows. Getting the permits and dealing with inspectors is the only drag.

After a bunch of demo, discovered electrical work, and reworking the monoflow, step one is complete, which is replacing the boiler and water heater.

The old boiler and water heater, about 200,000btu total, natural draft combustion:




The new boiler, with a loop through a storage tank for hot water, 120,000btu, sealed combustion condensing boiler with outdoor reset:




A look across the basement where the old boiler and water heater were. Chimney is texture painted red, and will be removed.




I've got some roofing to do, the three first floor sheds, and I'll be getting a 60 foot boom lift to do the chimney, I hate doing them off of ladders.