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The Ice Cream Man |
I’ve seen a number of different designs. It’s an incredibly cost competitive industry. I’m sure if these are being done, it’s with a plan to decrease costs. I know they have looked at partially submerged ships, as well, as a way to reduce the waterline. It’s a remarkably innovative heavy industry. | |||
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Member |
Sailors love to say that the wind is free. Here is what is not free; masts, booms, sails, standing rigging, running rigging. Anyone who has ever owned a sailboat knows what I'm talking about. If this idea works then great let's use it, but I'll have to see some cost breakdowns before I get too excited. Rod "Do not approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear, or a fool from any direction." John Deacon, Author I asked myself if I was crazy, and we all said no. | |||
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Not as lean, not as mean, Still a Marine |
Its a series of rotating masts used to harness the Magnus Effect to help pull the ship forward. It is not a sail in the traditional sense. These will only reduce engine output, they cannot be used in place of the ships engine. I am curious to see how the cost effectiveness plays out. I shall respect you until you open your mouth, from that point on, you must earn it yourself. | |||
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Thank you Very little |
Cheese n Rice, read the thread, there are no "sails" or Booms, rigging of anykind. These are cylindrical rotors, the forward movement of the ship turns the rotors, the rotors in turn create power to run the ship. | |||
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Partial dichotomy |
^^^ According to that video, the rotors are spun by an electric motor (how much power is required?). The wind may assist. I'm sure they've done the calculations to determine the effectiveness, but they may not (probably don't) consider is the wear and tear and maintenance of these rotors, especially in a salt water environment. It's all good on paper. | |||
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Savor the limelight |
They rotate? That's not really clear from a picture. The link in the first post take you to the same text as the first post. There is another link in that text that takes me to a pay walled article that I couldn't read. I searched and came up with things like the picture below and assumed the cylinders pictured in the first post were the same thing in the closed position. | |||
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Member |
I would say electric motors turn the rotors. The rotors don't create power - they create lift, but in the horizontal plane (forward thrust) using the Magnus effect (and Bernoulli's principle). Much depends on the wind direction relative to the ship and whether they turn clockwise or counter-clockwise. Winds coming from either the port or starboard beam are probably the best. In operation when the rotor is switched on and starts rotating in presence of wind, the change in the speed of airflow results in a pressure difference which creates a lift force that is perpendicular to the direction of wind flow. This provides the ship with an additional forward force which reduces the engine’s fuel consumption. Helpful Link _________________________________________________________________________ “A man’s treatment of a dog is no indication of the man’s nature, but his treatment of a cat is. It is the crucial test. None but the humane treat a cat well.” -- Mark Twain, 1902 | |||
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Thank you Very little |
Yes that is correct, the point being made is that these are not being used as conventional sails, there's nothing that uses air to push the ship. | |||
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Lost |
Looks like we're talking about all different things, apples, oranges, bananas.... There's different kinds of sails. They all harness wind propulsion in different ways. BILLOWING SAILS: a traditional sail design 90 by kpkina, on Flickr WING SAILS: airfoil-based sails rotate into position, but then stop at the optimal angle of attack (they don't continously rotate): ROTOR SAILS: use electric motors to rotate continuously and utilize the Magnus effect for propulsion. This message has been edited. Last edited by: kkina, | |||
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Member |
That's like saying there's nothing that uses air to push an airplane up. _________________________________________________________________________ “A man’s treatment of a dog is no indication of the man’s nature, but his treatment of a cat is. It is the crucial test. None but the humane treat a cat well.” -- Mark Twain, 1902 | |||
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Peace through superior firepower |
In reading this thread, I have lost 0.06% of my IQ. | |||
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Member |
I think this concept will be doomed by the difficulty of getting 3rd-world crews on Liberian-flagged ships to do the maintenance that huge rotating shafts will require. === I would like to apologize to anyone I have *not* offended. Please be patient. I will get to you shortly. | |||
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At Jacob's Well |
I wouldn't think much regular maintenance would be required for a rotor sail. Make sure the bearings stay sealed and the lubricating oil reservoirs are topped off. I'm makings some design assumptions since I'm too lazy to look up the actual design, but it shouldn't be complicated. J Rak Chazak Amats | |||
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Just because you can, doesn't mean you should |
There is really nothing that relates to actual sailboats beyond the name. And that is mostly an intentional marketing idea to get the zero carbon crowd onboard. Most of the online material does a poor job explaining things so regular folks can understand. ___________________________ Avoid buying ChiCom/CCP products whenever possible. | |||
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Savor the limelight |
I see the Flettnor Rotor is celebrating its 100th anniversary this year! Begs the question, what has changed to allow it to be feasible now after its invention 100 years ago? | |||
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Drill Here, Drill Now |
I certainly didn't look at a link behind a paywall nor do I think it's a reasonable expectation to do so. Thanks. Helpful video. Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity DISCLAIMER: These are the author's own personal views and do not represent the views of the author's employer. | |||
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Little ray of sunshine |
If it works, it works. I am not a naval engineer. I doubt a shipowner will unduly imperil a valuable vessel if these sails coupld be problematic. And they are doing to save fuel costs. Reducing emmissions is a side benefit. The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything. | |||
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Member |
The thrust/force vector from these 'sails' is pointed forward and is controlled by the rotation speed of the rotors and the direction/speed of the wind relative to the ship. All computer-controlled w/input from wind sensors. If there is no sufficient forward thrust/force, then they are simply shut down. Additionally, there is not enough effective flat plate area of the rotors to cause any lean on these massive ships. I don't believe we'll see these on container ships. The containers would block the rotors, which require secure mounting to the structure of the ship. I am not convinced of that at all. _________________________________________________________________________ “A man’s treatment of a dog is no indication of the man’s nature, but his treatment of a cat is. It is the crucial test. None but the humane treat a cat well.” -- Mark Twain, 1902 | |||
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Member |
HRK I did read the thread, and you missed my point. Additional equipment must be purchased at additional expense. As I said before if it works out, great let's use it, but if it is just additional expense for little gain then hard pass. Rod "Do not approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear, or a fool from any direction." John Deacon, Author I asked myself if I was crazy, and we all said no. | |||
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10mm is The Boom of Doom |
Looks a lot like a Roman Corvus. >>> CARTHAGO DELENDA EST <<< Kill the men. Enslave the women. Salt the earth. God Bless and Protect the Once and Future President, Donald John Trump. | |||
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