What an ignorant statement. It’s one Pam Bondi just used while being on TV with Ted Cruz a few days ago; “When I was just a civilian”.
It reminds me of a morning years ago when I took care of some pedestrian that looked like he got ran over, until the ambulance arrived. I filled the paramedics in on what I could and then this female police officer asked “Are you an officer or just a civilian”?
Good god I wanted to slap her. I just said “I’m not law enforcement”, and went to the ambulance to go clean up. Something tells me she has no idea how that sounds to someone who doesn’t make their living doing what she does. I’d like to think it was just misspoken but it really sounded like she looked down on those that didn’t wear a uniform. Is this really that common?

I think that this is an effort to separate “you versus them”. They have a hard time believing that a “civilian” might know as much or more than them.

RMD

I am a civilian, yes, but I am not "just" a civilian. Identifying myself as a civilian does not diminish me.

I asked Grok for the etymology of the term:

The word "civilian" comes from a journey through Old French and Latin, rooted in ideas of citizenship and civic life. It originates from the Latin word civis, meaning "citizen," which is tied to civitas, or "city" (think of "civilization" or "civic"). By the 14th century, Old French had turned this into civilien, meaning someone who lives under civil law or behaves in a citizen-like way—basically, a non-military person.
That French term hopped over to English around the late 1300s, first popping up as "civilian" to describe someone engaged in civil, rather than ecclesiastical or military, affairs. Over time, it narrowed down to its modern sense: a person not in the armed forces or other combat roles. So, it’s less about what you do and more about what you aren’t—not a soldier, not a fighter, but a regular citizen.

My understanding has always been you are a member of the military or you are a civilian.
LEOs are civilians for the most part, some may be members of the national guard.

Civilian = Citizen

WWBFD? (What Would Benjamin Franklin Do?)

Would you have been offended if she asked "Are you an officer, or just a Good Samaritan?"

I am both "citizen" and "civilian". I was once a soldier. I am no longer authorized to use force on behalf of the state. Thus I am a civilian.

Civilian, in this context, is being used to differentiate personnel authorized to deploy force or provide emergency servives on behalf of the state, from the general public.

While it may be somewhat inarticulate, I don't believe it is intended as insult. Probably best just to let this one go.

Yeah, I think the key word here is, "just". Kind of offensive.

I could see how someone with no ill intent could say that. In other words, are you in their particular profession or not, might be a more tactful way to express themselves.

She is still a civilian.

Your either military or civilian in my world. She may be referring to her new clearances but she's still a civilian until sworn in or receives a commission.

I'd need to become civil to be a civilian.

Unless you are active duty military, you are a civilian.

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:
She is still a civilian.

This.

Traditionally unless you hold a Geneva Convention Military ID card, then you too are a civilian.

We have a civilian police force, with the exception of MP's, Shore Patrol, and similar.

(disclaimer: I understand that some civilian DoD workers may be issued Geneva Convention ID cards now, but traditionally......)

ArtieS, I doubt the officer or Pam Bondi had intent to offend anyone. The officer seemed to have disdain in her voice but that is just my opinion. I won’t lose sleep over it as it’s not my outlook on people. I am curious if that’s a common opinion amongst LE though.

Please give her and the rest of us in the LE world a break...I beg you.

There have been liberal word games getting played with us for the past 15 years or so (it really began in Obama's first term) and then was codified in the "21st Century Policing Task Force Report" put out by Holder and his ilk.

When I started we used the term "citizen" to describe non-LE, but then we were beat up because it wasn't "inclusive" of the "non-legal immigrant community."

The PC version back then became "civilian" and has morphed into "community member" today.

In our own world we used to say sworn (meaning sworn officer or cop) and non-sworn (dispatchers, secretaries, CSO's, technicians, etc.). Now we are only allowed to say "professional staff" for non-sworn.

What does that make sworn folks, unprofessional?

Saying citizen, or civilian, or community member isn't meant to be condescending. It's a quick way of delineating who is who for most folks.

Thank you. I don't doubt your good graces, and I have an appreciation for those who say if you aren't Geneva Convention combatant, in uniform, you are a civilian. English suffers from some inaccuracies in this realm, if you want to avoid being wordy.

No harm, no foul. Peace.

As someone who spent many years as not a civilian, I admit that it still grates a little when I hear civilian—yes, civilian—law enforcement officers refer to any non-LEO as a “civilian.” But it’s like calling a straight trigger “flat”: Words get used in ways that are not etymologically correct, and often even in totally illogical ways all the time, and when that happens commonly enough the pundits will just smugly point out that that’s how languages evolve and ultimately all that matters is whether they’re understood in their new usage. “Flat” is used much more commonly these days to refer to certain triggers than “straight,” so no matter whether the term is technically properly descriptive, the former is what us shooters, even me, must become accustomed to seeing and hearing.

In this case of law enforcement usage, I’ve often wondered what other shorthand term could be used to refer to someone who wasn’t a law enforcement officer. I believe “citizen” was one such term, but these days that could be wrong nearly as often as correct.* As a neologism I would recommend “noleo” (or “no’leo” to satisfy certain cultural groups), but I have no hopes that it will be adopted any sooner than any of my other suggestions.

* And as I posted this, I see that term has already been addressed.

Pam Bondi is currently serving as a Civil Servant… Per chat GPT…

Does that make her not just a civilian?

Pam Bondi is a trillion times better than the dope she took over for.

I don’t care if she self identifies as a toaster.

Having been at different times- military, civilian, citizen.

I really cannot get worked up over anyone calling another "civilian or citizen.

It is simply not for me to get worked up over a thing like this, weather it is used out of ignorance or insult.

There are much greater threats or hazards I am keeping on the radar, while adjusting threshold and filtering of clutter.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:...

I don’t care if she self identifies as a toaster.

Damned straight.