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Maybe you shouldn't get into a fender bender...you could get...oh...wait...RIP Officer Login/Join 
Do---or do not.
There is no try.
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This kind of officer death really hits hard. Just senseless.

While I was with Dallas PD, we had lots of officers shot, but none under this particular circumstance. Who would have thought...?

RIP
 
Posts: 4505 | Registered: January 01, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of DrDan
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I have wrestled round-n-round about what makes an LEO's job "worse," in a danger sense, than other high-risk occupations. For concreteness, let's look at lumberjacks. Of course, they face the same risks everyone else does, including vehicle accidents, chunks of airplanes hitting them from the sky, etc. What is unique for them is the high-risk nature of their specific activity - cutting timber. Similarly, LEO's have a high-risk activity - interacting with criminals(*). Not all trees are deadly, not all criminals are deadly. The difference is that, once a logger is out of the woods, he isn't any more likely to be killed by a falling tree than anyone else. Sure, all the other hazards are present, but that is no different than anyone else. The LEO, however, can encounter a criminal at anytime, in any location, and under any circumstance. Even when they are off duty, their risk of interacting with a criminal is higher than non-LEO's, due to the fact that they are increasingly being targeted for simply being cops. A lumberjack is not going to get ambushed by a Ponderosa Pine while getting dinner at McDonald's. Cops do get ambushed while eating. I do not know the specific statistics, but even if the off-duty stats are low, the mental toll it must take to always have to be on guard must be exhausting.

I guess this thought can be summarized this way: most high-risk jobs have their risks limited in time and location allowing those facing the risks to manage their stress and alertness, whereas LEO's have a much wider time frame and locality where they face their risks.

(*) I specifically say criminal, since anyone causing or attempting to cause harm to a cop is committing a crime. While a cop does not always know who is the dangerous criminal up front, a logger can't always tell what tree is dangerous, either. In both cases, knowledgable and experienced practitioners will be better in their predictions, but neither is perfect.




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Posts: 4879 | Location: Florida | Registered: August 16, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Too old of a Cat,
to be licked by a Kitten
Picture of Klusk2
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quote:
Originally posted by DrDan:
I have wrestled round-n-round about what makes an LEO's job "worse," in a danger sense, than other high-risk occupations. For concreteness, let's look at lumberjacks. Of course, they face the same risks everyone else does, including vehicle accidents, chunks of airplanes hitting them from the sky, etc. What is unique for them is the high-risk nature of their specific activity - cutting timber. Similarly, LEO's have a high-risk activity - interacting with criminals(*). Not all trees are deadly, not all criminals are deadly. The difference is that, once a logger is out of the woods, he isn't any more likely to be killed by a falling tree than anyone else. Sure, all the other hazards are present, but that is no different than anyone else. The LEO, however, can encounter a criminal at anytime, in any location, and under any circumstance. Even when they are off duty, their risk of interacting with a criminal is higher than non-LEO's, due to the fact that they are increasingly being targeted for simply being cops. A lumberjack is not going to get ambushed by a Ponderosa Pine while getting dinner at McDonald's. Cops do get ambushed while eating. I do not know the specific statistics, but even if the off-duty stats are low, the mental toll it must take to always have to be on guard must be exhausting.

I guess this thought can be summarized this way: most high-risk jobs have their risks limited in time and location allowing those facing the risks to manage their stress and alertness, whereas LEO's have a much wider time frame and locality where they face their risks.

(*) I specifically say criminal, since anyone causing or attempting to cause harm to a cop is committing a crime. While a cop does not always know who is the dangerous criminal up front, a logger can't always tell what tree is dangerous, either. In both cases, knowledgable and experienced practitioners will be better in their predictions, but neither is perfect.


Well said.


The Working Police.....
"We the willing, led by the unknown, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful."
 
Posts: 2514 | Location: "Mag"azine Mile | Registered: February 28, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by DrDan:
I guess this thought can be summarized this way: most high-risk jobs have their risks limited in time and location allowing those facing the risks to manage their stress and alertness, whereas LEO's have a much wider time frame and locality where they face their risks.


Thank you DrDan, for expressing my thoughts on the matter better than I’ve been able to.
I could try to explain that position further, but it’s evident that some people have made up their minds and if what should be obvious even without explanation doesn’t convince them otherwise, nothing else will.




6.4/93.6
 
Posts: 47412 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
hello darkness
my old friend
Picture of gw3971
posted Hide Post
RIP LT Allen.

Chongo this post reminded me of an LEO death near and dear to my heart. I helped train him. He was an explorer and frequently did ride alongs with us until he was old enough to become an officer. I couldn't keep him out of my car. He was on the way to the office when he observed a stalled vehicle on the side of the road. He pulled over and asked if they needed help without getting out of his car. A crazy drug using P.O.S. shot him in the neck for his troubles.

https://www.ksl.com/?sid=26677416



 
Posts: 7724 | Location: West Jordan, Utah | Registered: June 19, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Posts: 17263 | Location: Stuck at home | Registered: January 02, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Not One of
the Cool Kids
Picture of enidpd804
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by DrDan:
I have wrestled round-n-round about what makes an LEO's job "worse," in a danger sense, than other high-risk occupations. For concreteness, let's look at lumberjacks. Of course, they face the same risks everyone else does, including vehicle accidents, chunks of airplanes hitting them from the sky, etc. What is unique for them is the high-risk nature of their specific activity - cutting timber. Similarly, LEO's have a high-risk activity - interacting with criminals(*). Not all trees are deadly, not all criminals are deadly. The difference is that, once a logger is out of the woods, he isn't any more likely to be killed by a falling tree than anyone else. Sure, all the other hazards are present, but that is no different than anyone else. The LEO, however, can encounter a criminal at anytime, in any location, and under any circumstance. Even when they are off duty, their risk of interacting with a criminal is higher than non-LEO's, due to the fact that they are increasingly being targeted for simply being cops. A lumberjack is not going to get ambushed by a Ponderosa Pine while getting dinner at McDonald's. Cops do get ambushed while eating. I do not know the specific statistics, but even if the off-duty stats are low, the mental toll it must take to always have to be on guard must be exhausting.

I guess this thought can be summarized this way: most high-risk jobs have their risks limited in time and location allowing those facing the risks to manage their stress and alertness, whereas LEO's have a much wider time frame and locality where they face their risks.

(*) I specifically say criminal, since anyone causing or attempting to cause harm to a cop is committing a crime. While a cop does not always know who is the dangerous criminal up front, a logger can't always tell what tree is dangerous, either. In both cases, knowledgable and experienced practitioners will be better in their predictions, but neither is perfect.


Dr. Dan,

Well struck, sir.
 
Posts: 3911 | Location: OK | Registered: August 15, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
Just saw this on the news. Very sad. I wonder if it was some type of head injury or maybe a gang initiation. We had an issue in my area that a certain gang was going to stage an accident and try to shoot as many first responders as possible. Every time we were notified of an accident, the p.d. would respond first. One accident we were dispatched for was a car that flipped over. The p.d. arrived on scene first and all occupants were gone prior to f.d. arrival. We had to watch each others back on every scene. I am not saying that was what happened in this case but nowadays people will do all kinds of things. You never know what to expect from one day to the next.
 
Posts: 6894 | Location: Treasure Coast,Fl. | Registered: July 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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