July 28, 2017, 10:36 AM
snorisMaybe you shouldn't get into a fender bender...you could get...oh...wait...RIP Officer
This kind of officer death really hits hard. Just senseless.
While I was with Dallas PD, we had lots of officers shot, but none under this particular circumstance. Who would have thought...?
RIP
July 28, 2017, 11:15 AM
DrDanI have wrestled round-n-round about what makes an LEO's job "worse," in a danger sense, than other high-risk occupations. For concreteness, let's look at lumberjacks. Of course, they face the same risks everyone else does, including vehicle accidents, chunks of airplanes hitting them from the sky, etc. What is unique for them is the high-risk nature of their specific activity - cutting timber. Similarly, LEO's have a high-risk activity - interacting with criminals(*). Not all trees are deadly, not all criminals are deadly. The difference is that, once a logger is out of the woods, he isn't any more likely to be killed by a falling tree than anyone else. Sure, all the other hazards are present, but that is no different than anyone else. The LEO, however, can encounter a criminal at anytime, in any location, and under any circumstance. Even when they are off duty, their risk of interacting with a criminal is higher than non-LEO's, due to the fact that they are increasingly being targeted for simply being cops. A lumberjack is not going to get ambushed by a Ponderosa Pine while getting dinner at McDonald's. Cops do get ambushed while eating. I do not know the specific statistics, but even if the off-duty stats are low, the mental toll it must take to always have to be on guard must be exhausting.
I guess this thought can be summarized this way: most high-risk jobs have their risks limited in time and location allowing those facing the risks to manage their stress and alertness, whereas LEO's have a much wider time frame and locality where they face their risks.
(*) I specifically say criminal, since anyone causing or attempting to cause harm to a cop is committing a crime. While a cop does not always know who is the dangerous criminal up front, a logger can't always tell what tree is dangerous, either. In both cases, knowledgable and experienced practitioners will be better in their predictions, but neither is perfect.
July 28, 2017, 12:02 PM
Klusk2quote:
Originally posted by DrDan:
I have wrestled round-n-round about what makes an LEO's job "worse," in a danger sense, than other high-risk occupations. For concreteness, let's look at lumberjacks. Of course, they face the same risks everyone else does, including vehicle accidents, chunks of airplanes hitting them from the sky, etc. What is unique for them is the high-risk nature of their specific activity - cutting timber. Similarly, LEO's have a high-risk activity - interacting with criminals(*). Not all trees are deadly, not all criminals are deadly. The difference is that, once a logger is out of the woods, he isn't any more likely to be killed by a falling tree than anyone else. Sure, all the other hazards are present, but that is no different than anyone else. The LEO, however, can encounter a criminal at anytime, in any location, and under any circumstance. Even when they are off duty, their risk of interacting with a criminal is higher than non-LEO's, due to the fact that they are increasingly being targeted for simply being cops. A lumberjack is not going to get ambushed by a Ponderosa Pine while getting dinner at McDonald's. Cops do get ambushed while eating. I do not know the specific statistics, but even if the off-duty stats are low, the mental toll it must take to always have to be on guard must be exhausting.
I guess this thought can be summarized this way: most high-risk jobs have their risks limited in time and location allowing those facing the risks to manage their stress and alertness, whereas LEO's have a much wider time frame and locality where they face their risks.
(*) I specifically say criminal, since anyone causing or attempting to cause harm to a cop is committing a crime. While a cop does not always know who is the dangerous criminal up front, a logger can't always tell what tree is dangerous, either. In both cases, knowledgable and experienced practitioners will be better in their predictions, but neither is perfect.
Well said.
July 28, 2017, 12:27 PM
sigfreundquote:
Originally posted by DrDan:
I guess this thought can be summarized this way: most high-risk jobs have their risks limited in time and location allowing those facing the risks to manage their stress and alertness, whereas LEO's have a much wider time frame and locality where they face their risks.
Thank you
DrDan, for expressing my thoughts on the matter better than I’ve been able to.
I could try to explain that position further, but it’s evident that some people have made up their minds and if what should be obvious even without explanation doesn’t convince them otherwise, nothing else will.
July 28, 2017, 12:42 PM
gw3971RIP LT Allen.
Chongo this post reminded me of an LEO death near and dear to my heart. I helped train him. He was an explorer and frequently did ride alongs with us until he was old enough to become an officer. I couldn't keep him out of my car. He was on the way to the office when he observed a stalled vehicle on the side of the road. He pulled over and asked if they needed help without getting out of his car. A crazy drug using P.O.S. shot him in the neck for his troubles.
https://www.ksl.com/?sid=26677416 
July 28, 2017, 04:40 PM
ZSMICHAELAdditional information below:
http://www.indystar.com/story/...e-officer/519455001/July 28, 2017, 05:09 PM
enidpd804quote:
Originally posted by DrDan:
I have wrestled round-n-round about what makes an LEO's job "worse," in a danger sense, than other high-risk occupations. For concreteness, let's look at lumberjacks. Of course, they face the same risks everyone else does, including vehicle accidents, chunks of airplanes hitting them from the sky, etc. What is unique for them is the high-risk nature of their specific activity - cutting timber. Similarly, LEO's have a high-risk activity - interacting with criminals(*). Not all trees are deadly, not all criminals are deadly. The difference is that, once a logger is out of the woods, he isn't any more likely to be killed by a falling tree than anyone else. Sure, all the other hazards are present, but that is no different than anyone else. The LEO, however, can encounter a criminal at anytime, in any location, and under any circumstance. Even when they are off duty, their risk of interacting with a criminal is higher than non-LEO's, due to the fact that they are increasingly being targeted for simply being cops. A lumberjack is not going to get ambushed by a Ponderosa Pine while getting dinner at McDonald's. Cops do get ambushed while eating. I do not know the specific statistics, but even if the off-duty stats are low, the mental toll it must take to always have to be on guard must be exhausting.
I guess this thought can be summarized this way: most high-risk jobs have their risks limited in time and location allowing those facing the risks to manage their stress and alertness, whereas LEO's have a much wider time frame and locality where they face their risks.
(*) I specifically say criminal, since anyone causing or attempting to cause harm to a cop is committing a crime. While a cop does not always know who is the dangerous criminal up front, a logger can't always tell what tree is dangerous, either. In both cases, knowledgable and experienced practitioners will be better in their predictions, but neither is perfect.
Dr. Dan,
Well struck, sir.
July 28, 2017, 05:48 PM
patwJust saw this on the news. Very sad. I wonder if it was some type of head injury or maybe a gang initiation. We had an issue in my area that a certain gang was going to stage an accident and try to shoot as many first responders as possible. Every time we were notified of an accident, the p.d. would respond first. One accident we were dispatched for was a car that flipped over. The p.d. arrived on scene first and all occupants were gone prior to f.d. arrival. We had to watch each others back on every scene. I am not saying that was what happened in this case but nowadays people will do all kinds of things. You never know what to expect from one day to the next.