What does the SF brain trust think of this?

I just got a NICS denial on a good buddy with a ton of guns and professional licenses in many states. His contracted vendors do background checks too, he’s never failed one. He has no criminal history at all. He was born in CA, but got dual citizenship with Mexico due to parents. We were racking our brains on this one. Then he said his wife has a very old felony and never got her civil rights restored. We’re wondering if their address is flagged because she’s prohibited and he obviously has the same address. The online NICS form asked to double check his address. The one I did for a woman earlier today did not ask that. Last gun he bought from an FFL was before they were married 10 yrs. ago. His is not a common name and we used his SS# too. What do you guys think?

It happened to me once and I had to file an appeal with the State police, took about 10-14 days as I recall but my denial was rescinded and I completed my purchase. I guess your friends first step is to file and appeal and go from there. Who knows the reason why your friend was flagged? Finding out the reason for the denial would be step one and how would NICS know the wife's address? Is there a place on the form where you list a spouses name and address?

Most likely a similar identifier. That’s the most common. Can be a similar name with same date of birth or something of the like.

So you used e-nics? How did it ask to double check the address? I have never seen that before. One time I entered the wrong info and came back delayed. I called NICS and they said to enter another check with the correct info and it went through. Start by making sure you entered everything correctly.

If it was all correct then there is something solid that they have on him, a lot can change in 10 years. He can do an appeal and maybe he will get a reply before the next century. If Az offers concealed carry then he can try and get one of those, if his background does not go through there then he has a problem. If it does then the NICS check is not needed.

we are a POC (point of contact, as in we send nics thru the VA State Police)

from what I have been told, clearances, (top secret, no secret, whatever) mean nothing,

it is all based on name,

the rest that is input, (height weight social place of birth etc) is used as an identifier,


so if Bob Smith gets delayed, it is not because he is a CIA spook or top brass military with uber clearances, it is because there are more than one Bob Smith, and one of the other ones has a record,

Denied means that Bob Smith, as identified on that form or submission, has a record and NICS did not think he was the other Bob Smith,

best to stop guessing (and BTW, NICS does not get the address on the submission) and give Bob the number to call and appeal,

they may reverse it, or they may have you resubmit,

and Bob may get a UPIN for future purchases

quote:

Originally posted by lyman:
we are a POC (point of contact, as in we send nics thru the VA State Police)

from what I have been told, clearances, (top secret, no secret, whatever) mean nothing,

it is all based on name,

the rest that is input, (height weight social place of birth etc) is used as an identifier,


so if Bob Smith gets delayed, it is not because he is a CIA spook or top brass military with uber clearances, it is because there are more than one Bob Smith, and one of the other ones has a record,

Denied means that Bob Smith, as identified on that form or submission, has a record and NICS did not think he was the other Bob Smith,

best to stop guessing (and BTW, NICS does not get the address on the submission) and give Bob the number to call and appeal,

they may reverse it, or they may have you resubmit,

and Bob may get a UPIN for future purchases

I went through the NICS training several years back and it did explain the mysterious process some. When there are similar identifiers to a prohibited person it usually goes to delay status so they can research. It gave a deny so there is something on his record.

quote:

Originally posted by mrvmax:
It gave a deny so there is something on his record.

How does NICS not get the address on submission when they asked for it twice? I was running the NICS check on my laptop while he was doing the 4473 on my iPad. I have traveled abroad with him and his wife. So I know his passport is clean. In our business, our professional licenses check for criminal backgrounds and we have license renewals every 3-5 yrs in most states. I have known him since I started seven yrs ago. I just can't believe he has a criminal issue he's not telling me about that happened between when he last bought from an FFL and since I first met him. He's not the kind of guy who would buy more guns and always have one on him, even in AZ, if it would jeopardize his livelihood and freedom. He didn't ask me to do anything off the books or anything like that.

Identity stolen and he doesn’t know of it?

quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee:

quote:

Originally posted by mrvmax:
It gave a deny so there is something on his record.

How does NICS not get the address on submission when they asked for it twice? I was running the NICS check on my laptop while he was doing the 4473 on my iPad. I have traveled abroad with him and his wife. So I know his passport is clean. In our business, our professional licenses check for criminal backgrounds and we have license renewals every 3-5 yrs in most states. I have known him since I started seven yrs ago. I just can't believe he has a criminal issue he's not telling me about that happened between when he last bought from an FFL and since I first met him. He's not the kind of guy who would buy more guns and always have one on him, even in AZ, if it would jeopardize his livelihood and freedom. He didn't ask me to do anything off the books or anything like that.

Could be incorrect info, I did have one guy that had his identity stolen and he would always be denied without the UPIN. NICS is not always right so I would assume they have wrong info on him if he is clean. Have him go through the appeal process but I have heard it takes a long time (never actually had anyone do it so I do not know for sure). Concealed carry is another way to find out when they do the background check - it could be quicker than NICS appeal.

If his wife is a felon, can he have guns in the same house?

I don't think it's allowed, but it's not asked on the 4473.

quote:

Originally posted by mrvmax:
So you used e-nics? How did it ask to double check the address?

Yes, NICS e-CHeck. When I was done with everything, it asked if the address I entered was the same as on his GIID, then asked me to reenter last name, first name, middle name and address. Hadn't had that happen before. Two recent NICS checks were for customers with super common names and they came back immediately with "proceed."

quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee:

quote:

Originally posted by mrvmax:
So you used e-nics? How did it ask to double check the address?

Yes, NICS e-CHeck. When I was done with everything, it asked if the address I entered was the same as on his GIID, then asked me to reenter last name, first name, middle name and address. Hadn't had that happen before. Two recent NICS checks were for customers with super common names and they came back immediately with "proceed."

Ok, that is normal.

we don't enter addresses here,

last, first, middle, (jr sr etc)
DOB
height
weight
sex
race
SSN (optional, can be nothing or DL #)
type of firearm,
citizen y/n
place of birth


any my business DIN and seller id,

I’ve had a denial on more than one occasion. As Jones said, it’s most often a similarity in an identifier. The times it occurred with me, one was clear in 10 minutes, one took an hour, and in one extreme case, it took a full day.

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:
I’ve had a denial on more than one occasion. As Jones said, it’s most often a similarity in an identifier. The times it occurred with me, one was clear in 10 minutes, one took an hour, and in one extreme case, it took a full day.

Sounds like you are speaking of a “delay”, there is no way to clear of a “deny” without appeal to NICS. NICS gives one of three results - proceed, delay or deny.

Theoretically, of course, if he were to change his address, get a new DL, and I reran him through NICS, assuming the address is what's tying him to a prohibited person, would that be kosher?

quote:

Originally posted by mrvmax:

... I did have one guy that had his identity stolen ...

I had one customer whose identify was assumed!

The assumer lived under the assumed name for nearly a decade, and even spent time in NYS prison for felony fraud under my customer's identity!!

It took the customer just a few weeks to prove to NYS that he was not who they claimed using DNA, photos, and prints. It took three plus years for the various fed. and state.gov agencies to fix his NICS history.


I had another who was arrested, in my business, on an outstanding warrant. He spent five days in jail. On what was proven to be an facially invalid warrant. Oddly enough, right after they left, the background check came back approved!

As for owning firearms in a home where a prohibited person lives, it is NOT a disqualifying condition for a NOT prohibited person. Period. It can make the life of the prohibited person hard, but it has ZERO effect on the person to whom the firearm is being transferred.

Lastly, as Lyman said, in Virginia we no not enter addresses or driver's license numbers into the VCheck system (Virginia's gateway to NICS) so I doubt that has anything to do with it.