Well, the brain trust over at the U.S. Forest Service, specifically the Arizona division of Mensa, has done it again. Evidently, these jackwagons missed a couple of pretty important memos. First, we live in a desert. A dry ass, sunscorched, crispy as a bag of chips desert. Second, wildfire season here isn't exactly a mystery. June to September. You know, when everything is drier than a popcorn fart and it hasn’t rained since the Clinton administration. Just a hunch, but maybe lighting things on fire during that window isn’t the best strategy?

But noooope. These knuckle dragging, mouth breathing, fire whisperers decided it was the perfect time to do a controlled burn. And shocker it got out of control. Again. Because apparently, it’s not considered arson if you’re a government employee with a lighter and an IQ south of room temperature.

So now, parts of the Grand damn Canyon are on fire because Cletus and friends wanted to “mitigate fuel load” like it’s SimCity and not, you know, one of the most iconic natural wonders on Earth. At this point, the only thing they’ve managed to control is public outrage and maybe a hotdog roast. Hell of a job, fellas. /rant

Seriously, I support controlled burns, and I really support the firemen who fight these fires, but why the fuck are we doing them in wildfire season? You can pretty easily burn the damn state down without trying, in January. I know I don’t have a degree in fire science, but I don’t think I really need one to burn out underbrush and fallen dead.

And because everyone likes a good link: https://apnews.com/article/gra...0c74a8ba69517ba1e592

Yes and what the forest service is famous for in the last 25 years is when a fire gets going they take about a week setting up a command center and get the gravy train of resources started so that they can have a three month extravaganza while watching millions of acres burn. When in the first day or two they could of put it out. This plays itself out all across the west every single year many times over. It is a travesty.
Oh and don't get me started how much damage these fires do to the environment compared to the stupid shit the climate alarmist and our government try to jam down our throats

My college roommate was from Oregon, and he was the first person in my life who made the same rant (different location) as the OP. Since, then I've heard it seemingly annually.

My college roommate took it a step further by claiming half the forest fires in Oregon were started by the US Forest Service as test fires that go out of control.

Saw the Grand Canyon Lodge burned....was there not enough time or resources to get a perimeter set-up, hose the area down with retardant/gel and wrap it in foil?

As for 'controlled burns' they are a necessity but, the window and timing to do them is pretty frustrating, not to mention the inter-service issues between Nat'l Forest and CalFire. Here in CA, you have to go through a litany of approvals from the local HOA to various state agencies before they can start a burn...and if that window passes because, you know weather changes, then they have to do the entire process all over again. Doing a burn in the middle of July, not good, at the very least there's minimal humidity.

quote:

Originally posted by tatortodd:
My college roommate was from Oregon, and he was the first person in my life who made the same rant (different location) as the OP. Since, then I've heard it seemingly annually.

My college roommate took it a step further by claiming half the forest fires in Oregon were started by the US Forest Service as test fires that go out of control.

A good friend of mine was an arson investigator for the USFS in Oregon in the 80’s to 2010 and he told me the same thing several years ago! Some BS about job security…

Losing the North Rim Lodge is a huge blow to the region

I did wildland firefighting for a season, roughly a thousand years ago, before deciding that dealing with humans in a park setting was both a) more fun and b) cleaner.

But I can absolutely confirm that the institutional "brain drain" in the Fire Management community has been constant and persistent for over twenty years. Things like prescribed burns going out of control, or crews losing all sense of fire conditions and movement (resulting in lost lines or dead firefighters) are now every-season occurrences. Forty years ago, these were extraordinarily rare and would've resulted in Boards of Inquiry and abruptly-ended careers. Now, it's a day that ends in "y." People are promoted to lead, supervisory, or management positions with virtually zero time on actual fires, though they certainly are very diverse and inclusive shops now. Add in poor fuel-reduction policies (knocking down every little fire, everywhere, for example) and it will continue to end badly.

There are others on SIGforum with far more recent footprints in that world than mine, but that's my take.

The Dragon Bravo Fire was started by lightning. The National Park Service attempted to manage it as a controlled burn and failed.

Link

“The historic lodge on the North Rim was consumed by a wildfire that started with a lightning strike on July 4. The blaze grew and continued burning heavily 10 days later.

Democratic Sens. Mark Kelly and Ruben Gallego pressed Interior Secretary Doug Burgum in a joint letter on why the fire was initially treated as a controlled burn until “strong winds allowed the fire to jump multiple containment features.””

The US Forest Service is part of the Department of Agriculture where as the National Park Service falls under the Department of the Interior.

Great rant though. It’s like when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.

I has been a long time since I was at the North rim. But loosing the lodge is terrible. The No. Rim was my favorite.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
The Dragon Bravo Fire was started by lightning. The National Park Service attempted to manage it as a controlled burn and failed.

Link



“The historic lodge on the North Rim was consumed by a wildfire that started with a lightning strike on July 4. The blaze grew and continued burning heavily 10 days later.

Democratic Sens. Mark Kelly and Ruben Gallego pressed Interior Secretary Doug Burgum in a joint letter on why the fire was initially treated as a controlled burn until “strong winds allowed the fire to jump multiple containment features.””

The US Forest Service is part of the Department of Agriculture where as the National Park Service falls under the Department of the Interior.

Great rant though. It’s like when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.

Trapper, the majority of reports I read said it was a controlled burn. You should come spend some time out here and endure the thick smokey weeks where they are doing controlled burns. Never in the winter or other times, controlled burns in AZ are almost always done in the height of wildfire season. So while I may be wrong about how it started, it doesn’t change anything. They tried to continue it as a controlled burn (which sounds like they could have put it out). It’s the middle of the dry time of year. If a fire starts during wildfire season when temps are a record high and humidity lower than it normally is, put that shit out. My rant stands. Zee Germans.

I agree which is why I compared your rant to one of my favorite rants.

My two favorite prescribe burns were:

- The Cerro Grande Fire at Los Alomos was a prescribed burn of a few hundred acres.

58,000 acres and 400 homes later...

- At the former Fort Ord, the base had to perform a 40 acre prescribed burn of California Coastal Chaparral Sagebrush (a fire dependent species) and to expose a range thought to have dud 40mm HE grenades. Even with the fire department on site, they got it under control at 1,600 acres.

And this:

The 2022 Calf Canyon/Hermits Peak Fire was the largest and most destructive wildfire in the history of New Mexico. The fire burned 341,471 acres (138,188 hectares) between early April and late June in the southern Sangre de Cristo Mountains, in San Miguel, Mora, and Taos counties. It was the most significant fire of the record-breaking 2022 New Mexico wildfire season, as well as the largest wildfire of the year in the contiguous United States.[2] The fire destroyed at least 903 structures, including several hundred homes, and damaged 85 more.[3][4]

The Calf Canyon/Hermits Peak Fire formed from the merger of two separate wildfires: the Hermits Peak Fire began on April 6 when the U.S. Forest Service lost control of a prescribed burn, and the Calf Canyon Fire began on April 9 when an improperly extinguished Forest Service pile burn from January rekindled. The two fires burned into each other during a major wind event on April 22, 2022. Afterwards, the combined blaze was managed as a single incident, growing to surpass the 2012 Whitewater-Baldy Complex fire to become New Mexico's largest ever before it was fully contained on August 21.[5][6]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...on/Hermits_Peak_Fire


The people affected are still waiting on FEMA.

.

Gee, we never hear about this side of the story from the MSM, or our "leaders" in Washington DC. Wonder why?

Very sad. Mrs. BB61 and I were there in June and stayed at Jacob Lake’s Inn. I can’t believe the lodge is gone.

Most here are convinced that the Dragon Bravo Fire started on the Kaibab (or never understood the difference between the Park Service and the Forest Service), and that it was a USFS decision to manage the fire, rather than suppress. The lightning strike was on the North Rim of the Grand Canyon, the fire is under the jurisdiction of the National Park Service, who is entirely responsible for containment and suppression. Not the fukkin’ Forest Service.

BTW, the article Beancooker linked even says “ Arizona Governor Katie Hobbs called on the federal government to investigate the National Park Service’s response to the wildfire.” Rocket surgeons? Yeah, we got those.

quote:

Background: The Dragon Bravo Fire began on July 4, 2025, as a result of a lightning strike within Grand Canyon National Park. The fire was initially managed with a confine and contain strategy, which included multiple containment features to protect structures, facilities and infrastructure.

And because everyone likes a good link: Inciweb

Hmm.

There is no hmmmm Tm. The forest circus is an absolute abomination.
They and there partners are solely responsible for the disaster our public lands have become in the last several decades despite the billions of tax dollars wasted on it.

Is that the old, “Well yeah, but…” defense?

Would love to sit across the table from you sometime and debate the “public lands disaster,” and “billions of dollars wasted.”

quote:

Originally posted by TMats:


Would love to sit across the table from you sometime and debate the “public lands disaster,” and “billions of dollars wasted.”

I don't have that kind of time to waste.

So we can agree to disagree.

I know you have lots of time in the system.
I have my experiences and knowledge on the subject well.

I don't have anything against those that put their time in.
But the future needs to be different than the past. Especially true with things like the FS. It has been a disaster.
Similar to the D o edu.