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A good buddy in Germany, who's a cop and thus had some connections with the German Red Cross, had two grandfathers perish in Stalingrad, another was wounded and survived. All he had for a long time was a letter stating one GF had gone missing on 12/15/42. The Red Cross later ID'ed the body, maybe 10 years ago, and moved it to a proper cemetery for German war dead right there in modern-day Volgograd. And then a few mos. ago they found a mass grave of 58 German soldiers there and were able to ID all of them. My buddy's other GF was in that one. The German Embassy and Red Cross arranged a nice wreath laying ceremony there and it was made into a short news story. My buddy flew out to Volgograd for it. | |||
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Member |
I read the book, Stalingrad, by Antony Beevor last year on the flight from Berlin to Seattle. It was kinda a documentary about the battle, and it's aftermath. It was a horror story of epic proportions. While visiting the Kaiser Wilhelm church in Berlin, I saw a cool old peice of art, and didn't think any more of it. A couple weeks later, I read a chapter in Stalingrad about a painting called fortress Madonna. The next page had a picture of the Fortress Madonna. It was the painting I saw in the church. I really regret that I saw it in person, before I knew its history. It was worth alot more than a passing glance. It was painted in charcoal on the back of a Russian map, in a bunker in Stalingrad. The artist, Dr Kurt Reuber was a doctor in the German army. According to Antony Beevor, the author of Stalingrad, Dr Reuber was shot in the back of the head by a Russian soldier, for tending to a German soldier who had fallen down on a forced March. | |||
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Eschew Obfuscation |
Great book. I also recommend "D-Day Through German Eyes" by Holger Eckhertz. _____________________________________________________________________ “One of the common failings among honorable people is a failure to appreciate how thoroughly dishonorable some other people can be, and how dangerous it is to trust them.” – Thomas Sowell | |||
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Member |
^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I agree. Read that last year. | |||
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Banned |
I had a friend born and raised in Nazi Germany. Didn't like to talk about it much but he was forced into the Hitler youth program. Would just talk about how horrible it was to live there then. Can't imagine being a soldier on the eastern front. Stalingrad in particular. Being under supplied during that Russian winter had to be a hellish nightmare. | |||
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Member |
My old boss (German) is in his mid-40s, and I make it a point to ask just about every German I meet what his/her father or grandfather did in the war. Boss's grandfather was a Fallshirmjäger (paratrooper), always said the war was the best time of his life and it never ended for him. While a POW he became friends with his captors and later started a business training police and military dogs. He made a good living supplying dogs to the US military thereafter. I've met plenty of folks who were true believers back in the day, but later came to see how bad that regime was. Though I sort of think they only came to that conclusion because their country ended up in ruins, occupied by foreign troops and all of them lost loved ones in the war. | |||
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Member |
And if you want to see some great films from the German perspective, you must rent Generation War, a terrible translation of the real German title, Unsere Mütter, Unsers Väter (Our Mothers, Our Fathers) and Before the Fall, in German: NAPOLA, Elite für den Führer. You won't stop thinking about them after you see them. | |||
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half-genius, half-wit |
My late Uncle Micky, an orphan born in 1920 in Dresden, joined the Wehrmacht at age 18 in 1938, just like a lot of young men of his era. In early March 1945, he ended up in a ditch along the A57 highway near Moenchengladbach, lacking an eye, a deal of his left arm and leg, and wondering what was coming next. He was a Funker - radio technician, and in all the years he had been a soldier in what was ostensibly a sedentary MOS, had nevertheless managed to earn a second and first class Iron Cross, get four wound awards and three close-combat medals. Some radio-op, eh? He was too badly injured for the follow-up American infantry to deal with, so he got passed to the Brits, who sent him to UK to get fixed up. It was at the recuperation centre that he met my aunt Ruby, one of the first female physiotherapists, and six months late they got married. He got employment with a radio and TV business in the town in which they lived, and it was he who taught me German when I was a young'un. He was a staunch catholic, in spite of being married to a Jew, due to his upbringing in a convent-driven orphanage in Dresden. He had the chance to go back on a few occasions, but never took it up - where the orphanage had been was a flattened piece of ground fifty times bigger than Yankee Stadium. He never really thrived in Wales, but accepted his destiny with good grace. He was a gentle man, and I remember him with great affection. He died the day before his 48th birthday, from pneumonia after a hard winter, in January 1968. His wife survived him by only five years, but I know she missed him every day of that time. Not all Germans killed Jews, or slaughtered civilians, and although he had had a hard war, he never complained about that either. | |||
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Member |
My wife's mother was a doctor in the Southern Russian army during Stalingrad. The only thing my wife remembers her mother speaking about was "the only water to drink was rain water collected in the vehicle ruts". During the war my wife's mother lost her first husband & her first child. My wife's father survived after being seriously wounded. Except for an uncle that was in Kamchatka, all the others in the family died except her two grandmothers. Her father's mother was shot by a German Officer in the street during the occupation of Rostov because she "looked like a Jew". After being told she was Armenian, the German had her taken to a hospital where she survived. The body of one uncle has never been found, nor do they know where he died. __________________________________________________ If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit! Sigs Owned - A Bunch | |||
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SIGforum's Berlin Correspondent |
The German word was "film", which has all the same meanings as in English. So he was asking her whether she had picked up developed frames from the photo shop, or possibly 8 mm film which was around then in the form of double-exposure 16 mm cassettes. Sütterlin cursive in old German documents is a major stumbling block. Fortunately there now is OCR which can read it, because the generation which still learned it is dying out. I'm forever grateful to late family members who at some point typed up letters from their kin to save them for posteriority. My father's dad was a miner, an occupation deemed essential for the war effort; so he was never drafted for WW II, and there isn't much documentation from that side of the family at all. However, my mother's is a professional military family going back a long way, and with a penchant for history. Years ago I got transscripts of letters my grand-grand-uncle Friedrich von Ingenohl wrote home in 1901-1903 while subsequently commanding heavy cruisers SMS Kaiserin Augusta and Hertha, then flagships of the German Imperial Navy's East Asia Squadron based out of Tsingtao. He later made admiral and rose to commander of the German High Seas Fleet. In 1915 he was relieved over the repeat fiasco of the Battle of the Dogger Bank, though in another letter I saw he blamed his dismissal on an intrigue in the naval cabinet. His younger brother-in-law, my grand-grandfather, served as an army officer in WW I, afterwards joined one of the notorious Freikorps volunteer formations fighting the Soviets in the Baltic, and eventually got taken over into the new Reichswehr where he fought the communists in the 1920 Ruhr Uprising. By the time the Third Reich rolled around, he was a semi-retired "supplementary officer" with the rank of colonel in charge of the Reichswehr recruiting post in Kassel, later Wehrmacht District Command II. In 1941 he was re-activated at age 43, promoted major general and put in command of a replacement brigade which was quickly sent to Belorussia, where its troops were used piecemeal for rear area security against partisans. During this time both his sons went MIA in Russia, one an infantry captain, the other a fighter pilot who per post-war information appears to have been shot when the Soviet field hospital he was taken to as a prisoner after bailing out retreated from the advancing German front. Along with his failing health (he went temporarily blind in the winter of 1941/42), that seems to have turned the general into a bitter crank and pain in the arse to his superiors. In a post-war letter, he claimed that when an SD extermination squad came to the town where his HQ was located to kill of the local population - which he described as "Jews of the worst, dirtiest kind" - he threatened to have his own troops fire on them, and managed to get some of the locals out under the guise of "work parties" before he was temporarily called away and the SD did their thing. His account doesn't quite check out with times and places I found however, though it might just have worked. Never been really sure whether it was true, or something he made up to acquiesce his regrets about things he did or didn't do; the adressee of that letter didn't seem like somebody he needed to defend himself to, anyway. He was however retired in 1942, ostentatively on health reasons, but listed as a general fired for political reasons in an Allied propaganda leaflet somebody showed him later in the war. Per family lore, he showed it to his American interogator when temporarily arrested in 1945, who confirmed the list was real and he was lucky to be alive. The best-documented life of a wartime family member is my granduncle's, who went MIA near the war's end in Eastern Prussia as a regimental commander when he went forward to a battalion command post which unbeknownst to him had already been evacuated and taken by the Soviets. Some years ago I got an absolute treasure trove on him from the effects of a late grandaunt - inocculation certificates, school reports, insurance lists, academy evaluations, promotions, a receipt for a privately purchased Beretta pistol, everything. Then on top, an uncle gave me transscripts from letters this guy wrote home while deployed to the Kuban River front in Southern Russia as a division executive officer in 1943. I translated excerpts to English for another board back then. I'll see that I find the time on the weekend to repost some of them here; they make an interesting contrast to the one in the OP, since as a career officer who had spent most of the war in logistics commands so far, he was actually quite enthusiast to finally get to the front (which despite his posting to a division HQ turned out to be trying enough). | |||
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Too old to run, too mean to quit! |
Yes, that is the way I read it, too. During my tours in Germany, I met several Germans who had been on the Russian front. None of them had fond memories of it. A couple were "late returnees" having been imprisoned for quite some time after the war ended. They also had memories of friends who didn't survive the prison camps. I also met a couple of Germans who told of Russian soldiers they had come across during occupation of the East zone. Very interesting to actually talk to them about those experiences. And in the village my wife is from, there was a Russian who had been a prisoner, started to return home (to Russia) and decided he would rather stay in the village and came back. Also, the village butcher had been a prisoner in Russia for some time. We discussed it (not much) over the years. Elk There has never been an occasion where a people gave up their weapons in the interest of peace that didn't end in their massacre. (Louis L'Amour) "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. " -Thomas Jefferson "America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great." Alexis de Tocqueville FBHO!!! The Idaho Elk Hunter | |||
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Member |
Years ago, in the fifties, my father hired a Russian immigrant, who was a draftsman. He had been a Russian soldier, captured and brought back to Germany for slave labor. His job was to clear wreckage from the city streets caused by alied bombing DURING the bombing. My dad said he had no use for anything German and would curse at a German Shepherd if he saw one on the street. | |||
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half-genius, half-wit |
When I was in the British Military Mission, I was based in the early 80's in Berlin and Potsdam,and we had a lovely German lady as a baby-sitter for our then one-year-old daughter. Her father had been taken prisoner at Stalingrad, and put down a coal-mine near Ekaterinburg. He did not see daylight again until 1956. He was released and given a train ticket and told to go home, which he did, remembering that at that time there was no wall in Berlin. Of the 600 prisoners in his group, he was one of just five who survived. | |||
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SIGforum's Berlin Correspondent |
Found them. Some general info on this guy: 31 March 1909 born at Pfalzburg (Phalsbourg), Lorraine (today French again), as the son to a captain of the Prussian Army. 1929 joins Infantry Regiment 3 of the Reichswehr in Eastern Prussia as an officer candidate. 8 August 1931 graduates as an ensign from Infantry School at Dresden. 6 August 1932 graduates officer course as a senior ensign and extends his term to a total of 30 years. 1 May 1933 commissioned second lieutenant. 1 December 1934 promoted first lieutenant; transferred to Infantry Regiment Marienburg where he served as a battalion adjutant. 1937 becomes an aide-de-camp on the regimental staff and trains for the War Academy exam which he passes in early 1939. 1 January 1939 promoted captain (the certificate is first to say "in the name of the Führer and Reich Chancellor" rather than "the Reich", the German Eagle imprint in the document replaced by the Third Reich eagle and swastika). 1 April 1939 made regimental adjutant, and in that capacity takes part in the attack on Poland in September that year. 29 September 1939 awarded the Iron Cross 2nd Class by the commander of 21st Division. There is no citation, but an evaluation by his regimental commander from 4 December describes him as "fully proven before the enemy" and fit for general staff service. 30 January 1940 attached to the general staff and subsequently becomes transport commander for the Warsaw area. 1 January 1942 provisionally commanded to fill the slot of Ia (first general staff officer) at Wehrmacht Transport Command Center. 25 February 1942 tasked with holding transport classes for the 5th General Staff Officer Course. 1 April 1942 promoted major. 10 August 1942 takes over as Ia for Wehrmacht Transport Command Paris. He seems to expect some adventures there, since on 6 August he buys a personal Beretta 7.65 mm pistol at a Berlin hardware store for 47.20 Reichsmark, its original Italian proving certificate dated 12 July 1941. 15 January 1943 again transferred to become Ia for Wehrmacht Transport Command West. 1 May 1943 promoted lieutenant colonel. Here's some excerpts from his letters after he is ordered to take over as executive officer of 73rd Infantry Division on the Kuban. He wasn't the biggest writer (in fact he failed grade in school once over it), and I stuck closely to his style including abbrevations when translating; so don't expect "All Quiet On The Western Front".
During this time, his wife also collected issues of the local paper back home in Kassel covering the retreat from the Kuban. The same uncle who gave me the transcripts of the letters also gave me copies of those recently at the wedding of my brother #4. The focus of attention was actually on the aftereffects of a severe British bombing raid on the city on the previous weekend, but of course there were also other topics like the defection of Italy to the Allied camp, fighting in the Mediterranean Theater, and even some reports from Japanese actions in the Pacific. It's basically a look at the world in a week of 1943 through the lens of Nazi propaganda. Most interesting to me were the attempts to play up domestic quarreling and inter-allied frictions in the enemy camp, like warnings of post-war unemployment, complaints about a bloated US government bureaucracy sheltering millions from military service, and about US soldiers in the UK by locals. I translated a lot of that, too. Maybe I'll post some later, it certainy fits the topic. | |||
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Member |
I can imagine him shooting his beretta at the planes. There is something good and motherly about Washington, the grand old benevolent National Asylum for the helpless. - Mark Twain The Gilded Age #CNNblackmail #CNNmemewar | |||
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Fighting the good fight |
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SIGforum's Berlin Correspondent |
I thought he was crossing into cartoon stereotype territory when he wrote about losing his monocle while racing down a slope trying to evade Russian fire, myself. Here's some of the newspaper articles looking at world affairs during the same time. Some lines on the page bottoms were unfortunately cut off in the copies.
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